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Re:Sparta was more than an army of super warriors by arisAlexis on Thursday September 30, 2021 @05:19PM (#28711443)
I don't understand the point of the article. In quantitative terms one can say that Y was better than X. Like: Usa in the 20th century was better at creating technology. Why does the author need to emphasize that Spartans were no better than other Greeks as warriors as it's a bad thing? It's not discimination or racism or whatever. I think it's because in modern times saying Y is better than X is bad. Except for in sports. Weird.
Re:Sparta was more than an army of super warriors by zardo on Thursday September 30, 2021 @05:28PM (#28711534)
>Why does the author need to emphasize that Spartans were no better than other Greeks as warriors as it's a bad thing?

It's a popular trope, and it's not true.

Re:Sparta was more than an army of super warriors by arisAlexis on Thursday September 30, 2021 @05:30PM (#28711551)
Well I am Greek and had read a lot of stuff also at school about it. In ancient Greece they were considered as such. How do you know it's a trope? Statistical data?
Re:Sparta was more than an army of super warriors by AmateurAtMost on Thursday September 30, 2021 @05:36PM (#28711618)
Yes, statistical analysis of their victories and defeats. It's an excellent book. I'd recommend it.
Re:Sparta was more than an army of super warriors by dragontamer on Thursday September 30, 2021 @06:31PM (#28712113)
It doesn't matter how "tough" Spartans were. They were largely illiterate and terrible at logistics. Its hard to win battles when you're terrible at supply lines. And its hard to keep track of supplies if you don't know how to read or write.

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I've commonly heard that Spartans were good at fighting but bad at war. Turns out that a band of illiterate warriors is largely a bad idea for an army composition. If the war goes on too long, they simply run out of supplies and leave (Or, if they're forced to fight, they run out of supplies and lose)

Re:Sparta was more than an army of super warriors by hef19898 on Thursday September 30, 2021 @06:44PM (#28712233)
Ever since decisive battles stopped being a thing with industrialization, I know one European country that started and lost two world wars due deficits in strategy, operations and supply. Tactically it wasn't too bad so.
Re:Sparta was more than an army of super warriors by arisAlexis on Friday October 01, 2021 @08:40AM (#28717700)
Someone on the internet "commonly heard". Ok.
Re:Sparta was more than an army of super warriors by dragontamer on Friday October 01, 2021 @11:36AM (#28719817)
The propaganda of an elite class of warriors is useful. It's basically why the US Marines exist, and such stories are useful for recruitment and morale purposes. (Furthermore: Army can pickup on the engineering, supply and logistics problems).

But there is also the truth and history that we want to learn about sometimes. I think the Spartan mythos was useful to other Greeks, and the Spartan mythos remains useful today (in the form of US Marines).

But the myth is distinct from the real and actual history. It is beneficial to peel back the propaganda sometimes and analyze history for what it is.

Spartans did not win battles more often than others. Spartans couldn't field an army for extended periods of time. Etc. Etc. And yet we have these stories and written history of how great a warrior they were.

Thus: they probably were good at fighting (almost universally accepted). But war is more than just a fight. All the other bits of war were hampered by Spartan society, most noticably their illiteracy.

Re:Sparta was more than an army of super warriors by arisAlexis on Thursday September 30, 2021 @06:25PM (#28712073)
Book name?
Re:Sparta was more than an army of super warriors by myfartsarefoul on Thursday September 30, 2021 @05:55PM (#28711819)
Are the battle outcomes fair comparisons? What if they had great warriors but poor decision makers? Could they have fought poorly matched battles for the sake of conserving resources, etc?

I don’t care about Sparta one way or another. But simply “looking at numbers” can be deceiving.

Re:Sparta was more than an army of super warriors by kelnos on Thursday September 30, 2021 @07:43PM (#28712636)
Does it matter, though? A loss is a loss. It doesn't matter if they lost because their warriors were weak, or if their leaders were poor strategists. They still lost, and a big part of the mythos around Sparta (at least to me) is that they were a city of strong warriors who won most of their battles.