I don’t know what level of convincing you need, but here in BC, unvaccinated people are about 25x more likely to show up in a hospital than vaccinated people:

https://news.gov.bc.ca/releases/2021HLTH0058-001843

Over the past two weeks:

> After factoring for age, people not vaccinated are 25.8 times more likely to be hospitalized than those fully vaccinated.

(The age correction reflects the fact that vaccines aren’t distributed evenly by age).

Sorry, I just don't believe these numbers. Even mainstream media sources have begun admitting that hospital admission rates are meaningless because they reflect mostly test results from hospital admissions for concerns other than covid symptoms. It is interesting that despite this the unvaccinated are showing up more, but because it is for example plausible that the unvaccinated are just plain leaving their homes more, I think that actual scientific study is needed to explain these numbers.

I recognize that it's ridiculous to be in a situation where I'm rejecting facts; that's a great way to be led completely astray. But that's the world that censorship has created.

> I recognize that it's ridiculous to be in a situation where I'm rejecting facts; that's a great way to be led completely astray. But that's the world that censorship has created.

Sounds to me like you're blaming everyone else for something that's completely under your control.

What will you believe?

As I said,

> I think that actual scientific study is needed to explain these numbers.

Science is not done in the media. I'm tired of being told that I have to believe the science that's on TV when every single time I investigate it turns out the science says the exact opposite. The non-scientific "facts" in the media are even worse; take those overwhelmed hospitals in Oklahoma and the nationwide overwhelmed poison control centers, which were both bold-faced lies. (In case you've missed the non-retractions, Oklahoma hospitals denied having ivermectin patients and only 2% of calls to poison control had anything to do with covid.)

You dodged the question of what you actually would believe.

You were linked a government study, then said "science is not done in the media"

The only link I see in this thread is a government press release, not a scientific study. The first step is to be able to distinguish those.

That's not a press release, it's a summary of government data, which they source here:

http://news.gov.bc.ca/files/8-31_PHO_modelling.pdf

And here:

http://www.bccdc.ca/health-info/diseases-conditions/covid-19...

You still didn't answer the question of what would you actually believe. It seems like you might just call anything you don't like "the media". Let's see where you get your information.

That link isn't from the media.

Did you miss the first (last) component of the address? "news"? It's a press release, which is a step in the wrong direction from the media. I was attempting to steelman the opposing position by upgrading it to media interpretations of press releases.

I believe you’ve made your point that nothing will reasonably sway you. Even if a “scientific” study is performed (and many are certainly in progress - but science is slow!) you can simply latch on to any flaw in the study to reject the results.

Give me a good explanation of how a 25x effect size can be hand waved away. Even if you consider “leaving their homes more”, I have a tough time believing that you’ll be able to come up with an effect size that large on that basis alone.

As an addendum to this, I’ll point out that several jurisdictions dealing with very severe case loads, including Alberta and Saskatchewan in Canada, have cancelled many elective procedures in favour of putting more COVID patients in their wards. Doesn’t sound like these are “concerns other than COVID symptoms” to me.

Yes, I agree with you. People are so scared by the "scary potential dangers" that aren't happening that they don't take something that reduces their risk of death by massive amounts, 20+x times.

All you "young" people not taking the shot, there are lots of otherwise relatively young people dying every day. Don't die needlessly. Search for stories of people who regretted not taking it on your deathbed. Do you want your mom or dad to live without you?

You're going to make an anecdote-based emotional appeal to an audience whose belief that they're being manipulated has constantly been validated by incompetence, corruption, and censorship?