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Re:The train that shrunk France and Western Europe by maeln on Tuesday September 28, 2021 @05:56AM (#28680972)
There was the same discussion a few days ago on another post. It's not a fair comparison. You can hardly hijack a train. Even if you manage to get control of the train, you cannot land it in a tower full of people. The worst you can do is make it de-rail which, while it will probably kill a lot of people, is unlikely to kill all of its passenger. And if you carry a bomb you will blow at most one compartment. Also, with train, even if someone manage to get to the driver compartment, you can still control a lot of the train from the outside. You can change its direction at exchange point, you can cut its supply in electricity (if it is an electric train) therefore stopping it (although in quite a dangerous way...). And you are still on the ground were it is very easy for police / military to catch up and intervene. You can't do that with a plane several kilometers high in the sky.

Planes are much more sensible to all of those potential threat. That is why we ended up with such drastic security. Although I have to say, in a lot of places, security is way more relaxed. If you travel from the E.U to the E.U you have way less check and queue time.

Re:The train that shrunk France and Western Europe by mytailorisrich on Tuesday September 28, 2021 @06:04AM (#28681020)
The thing is that if someone wants to use a bomb to derail a train it may be easier to place the bomb on or near the tracks, which obviously bypasses any security onboard.

This was attempted on the TGV during the terrorist wave of the mid-90s in France but, fortunately, it did not detonate.

That being said, I think that they have X-ray checks now on TGVs.

Re:The train that shrunk France and Western Europe by Sevaris on Tuesday September 28, 2021 @09:15AM (#28682366)
I'm so glad that terrorists are largely unimaginative and/or incompetent. There are so many targets, including trains, that they're ignoring that would be so much easier to hit.

I think what many people seem to be missing is that you don't need to kill 3000 people. If you kill 1000, spread out across 10 cities, you're going to cause a lot of fear and chaos.

Re:The train that shrunk France and Western Europe by pjerem on Tuesday September 28, 2021 @07:46AM (#28681662)
> I think that they have X-ray checks now on TGVs.

Nope.

Re:The train that shrunk France and Western Europe by mrgordon on Tuesday September 28, 2021 @03:27PM (#28686457)
Spain has security checks at their major stations for high speed trains including to go to France, but France does not
Re:The train that shrunk France and Western Europe by pjerem on Tuesday September 28, 2021 @04:28PM (#28687101)
There are so many widely open train stations in France that securing only some of them would be a huge waste of time and energy while securing them all would be nearly impossible.

And I really don’t want to live in a country where boarding a train is as painful as boarding a plane. Millions of people are using train to commute, adding security checks would totally kill the train.

Re:The train that shrunk France and Western Europe by mrgordon on Thursday September 30, 2021 @05:30AM (#28704532)
For what’s it’s worth it’s more of a bag scan rather than a full security check like at the airport. Certainly the full security check is not something I want to deal with but it wasn’t too bad. They only do it at the main stations in Spain and only if you’re riding the high speed trains, so I imagine if France did it then it would only be at TGV stops which are not so numerous
Re:The train that shrunk France and Western Europe by bambax on Tuesday September 28, 2021 @09:23AM (#28682451)
The point of terrorism isn't especially to kill "a lot of people" (although that helps, obviously); it is to terrify. Many recent terrorist attacks killed relatively few people, yet were extremely effective in terrorizing.

Should the first car of a TGV explode at 350+ km/h I think it would work as a terror attack.

Yet, although train security is nil, it never happens [0]. I'm not sure why. My first guess is there are not that many terrorists. We probably could ease the security on planes with few ill effects.

[0] There has been train attacks or hijacks but no bombs AFAIK.

Re:The train that shrunk France and Western Europe by GekkePrutser on Tuesday September 28, 2021 @05:26PM (#28687741)
It's not nil. I had to get my luggage x-rayed when I went from Barcelona to Madrid, a national trip.

I didn't get checked for metal objects etc, but there is no point. You can't get to the cab from the train anyway. And the impact of knifings/shootings is the same as in a busy shopping centre. We don't do metal detections there on every visitor.

So the main terrorism risk really relevant to it being a mode of transport rather than any other crowded place, is bombing and thus derailment of the entire train. And that is something that is checked for, at least here in Spain.

Re:The train that shrunk France and Western Europe by bambax on Wednesday September 29, 2021 @03:02AM (#28691009)
It is not checked in France, ever, at all, and TFA is about French TGV.

It is true that it is "checked" in Spain; I experienced it this summer while going from Sevilla to Cordoba. However the check is (in my experience) quite superficial; also, as it creates long lines of people that get upset that they may miss their train, it is expedited and many things do not in fact pass through the X-ray machine. And finally, it is not checked on all trains; we were checked from Sevilla to Cordoba (the train was going all the way up to Barcelona) but there were no checks on the return leg.

So, while it would be trivial to bring bad things aboard a train in France, it seems that it wouldn't be difficult in Spain either.

Re:The train that shrunk France and Western Europe by Symbiote on Tuesday September 28, 2021 @10:40AM (#28683349)
Re:The train that shrunk France and Western Europe by jacquesm on Tuesday September 28, 2021 @06:31AM (#28681155)
We had two hi-jacking of a train in NL a long time ago.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1977_Dutch_train_hijacking

Re:The train that shrunk France and Western Europe by throw0101a on Tuesday September 28, 2021 @06:48AM (#28681269)
Re:The train that shrunk France and Western Europe by maeln on Tuesday September 28, 2021 @08:11AM (#28681848)
Ofc these things happen, but compare that to the number of hijacked aircraft : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aircraft_hijacking

Pre 2001, there was more than 10 hijack almost every year.

Re:The train that shrunk France and Western Europe by GDC7 on Tuesday September 28, 2021 @06:08AM (#28681042)
You don't get it.

Trains are left to themselves, there is no surveillance.

Ill intentioned people can change dynamic of the attack, instead of needing 2 planes and use them as kinetic projectiles against buildings, they'd need an armed guy on 10 trains

The end result in terms of human losses is the same because a guy with a gun can go through each and every compartment and off everybody before the police would even know what's going on.

Multiply that scenario by 10 or 20 or 30 and you have the worst national tragedy in the history of the nation.

I am thankful because if people on HN can't conceptualize that, then the odds of some goatfuc*er in the mountains of Afghanistan doing it are even lower....but still people thought they could not conceptualize the attacks happened in the 2000s. Everybody remembers the first, but there were also London and Madrid.

Re:The train that shrunk France and Western Europe by dustintrex on Tuesday September 28, 2021 @07:32AM (#28681555)
Or the terrorists could just go shoot up a packed nightclub, which is exactly what they did in the Bataclan attack in Paris. There isn't really anything particularly attractive about trains as a target compared to any other crowded place.

Also, your hypothesis is that a single person could kill everybody on a train, but in reality they'd get assaulted with suitcases, the doors between carriages would be barricaded, somebody would pull the emergency brake and people would flee, etc. This was actually tried once in France, and the attacker managed to kill zero (0) people before they were overpowered.

https://www.france24.com/en/france/20201217-thalys-train-gun...

Re:The train that shrunk France and Western Europe by bambax on Tuesday September 28, 2021 @09:28AM (#28682506)
It would be extremely easy to go onto a TGV (with a ticket), put a suitcase in the luggage compartment with a bomb in it, and not board the train.

There would be zero risk for the terrorist. There are no baggage check, and no one makes sure the owners of each luggage are on board. In theory each suitcase should have a label with the owner's name and address, but that too is not checked (and even if it was it would be the easiest thing to fake).

I just don't understand why it doesn't happen. I think the main reason is because there are very few actual terrorists, contrary to what everyone wants us to believe.

Re:The train that shrunk France and Western Europe by thriftwy on Tuesday September 28, 2021 @03:11PM (#28686275)
It's actually easier to just mine the tracks and be gone long before the train comes and derails.
Re:The train that shrunk France and Western Europe by GDC7 on Tuesday September 28, 2021 @07:34AM (#28681572)
> There isn't really anything particularly attractive about trains as a target compared to any other crowded place.

The amount of people per square foot surface, the fact that there is no way out and the fact that police cannot rush to the scene

Re:The train that shrunk France and Western Europe by bserge on Tuesday September 28, 2021 @06:15AM (#28681081)
We need to get rid of those through-highrise rails!
Re:The train that shrunk France and Western Europe by imtringued on Tuesday September 28, 2021 @02:38PM (#28685987)
You don't need an armed guy on 10 trains. Just plant bombs on the rails and blow them up.