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Re:Lockdown, distance learning likely to increase social cla... by packetlost on Monday September 27, 2021 @11:24AM (#28671786)
Not to mention the fact that a massive part of school is just learning to socialize with people who aren't your family and that you may or may not particularly like.
Re:Lockdown, distance learning likely to increase social cla... by inglor_cz on Monday September 27, 2021 @12:29PM (#28672751)
One thing that rubs me the wrong way about school socializing is that you learn to socialize only with people of your own age. That is a very unnatural group that succumbs to idiosyncratic peer pressures, fashions and groupthink.

I definitely got better at socializing when I left school and started to interact with much more age diverse groups in the wider world.

Re:Lockdown, distance learning likely to increase social cla... by farmerstan on Monday September 27, 2021 @04:30PM (#28675616)
No this is a good thing. Kids develop at different ages and being around kids their age build up confidence. If they mixed classes too much then the older kids would dominate everything and the younger kids would learn to just shut up.

Especially with girls it’s important for kids to learn self esteem and agency, and they can’t do that when bigger, stronger, smarter and faster older kids are dominating everything in the classroom.

Re:Lockdown, distance learning likely to increase social cla... by PoignardAzur on Monday September 27, 2021 @06:51PM (#28677107)
Sounds like post-hoc rationalization to me.

With that reasoning, you could also decide that classes shouldn't be mixed-gender, because boys might bully girl or girls might bully boys, and it's better to keep everyone in a group of people exactly like them.

Re:Lockdown, distance learning likely to increase social cla... by farmerstan on Tuesday September 28, 2021 @03:39AM (#28680261)
It’s obvious you don’t have children because this is actually an issue that is starting to come around.

Educators are finding that mixing genders actually puts a lot of pressure on boys to behave like girls, ie less excited etc so when they act out, they are medicated or sent to the principals office. Separating boys from girls in the classroom might help boys when they are younger.

And girls benefit from being separated especially during puberty. My friend just sent her daughter to an all-girls middle school that specifically targets girls this age so that they can learn to be more confident during the most awkward age of their lives.

Re:Lockdown, distance learning likely to increase social cla... by packetlost on Monday September 27, 2021 @12:36PM (#28672851)
This really isn't true though. Some schools have mixed-grade lunches, clubs, some classes, etc. and how can you not categorize interactions with teachers and other faculty as not being in a different age group???
Re:Lockdown, distance learning likely to increase social cla... by jlokier on Monday September 27, 2021 @03:02PM (#28674659)
> interactions with teachers and other faculty

Interactions, yes, but I wouldn't call those interactions socialising.

In my entire time as a child and teenager at multiple schools, I don't recall spending any time socialising with teachers and other faculty. Not once, and not even with my favourite teachers who made the most lasting impressions through their teaching, and willingness to teach me more advanced things than on the standard curriculum.

It was pretty minimal at university too. Socialising was with other students.

Re:Lockdown, distance learning likely to increase social cla... by packetlost on Monday September 27, 2021 @03:10PM (#28674770)
Social education is not just socializing. It's important for children to learn social dynamics with people who are a different standing as them and their immediate peers.
Re:Lockdown, distance learning likely to increase social cla... by jlokier on Monday September 27, 2021 @03:19PM (#28674882)
I agree those things are important.

But the post by inglor_cz you replied to was specifically about socialising being limited to peer ages as a child, not social eduction in general.

Therefore your reply "this isn't really true though" and "how can you not categorise .. teachers" implied socialising with teachers and faculty, not just formal social interactions.

It really is true that many children don't have the opportunity to socialise with people outside a narrow age range at school, and that seems like a legitimate thing to dislike.

Re:Lockdown, distance learning likely to increase social cla... by inglor_cz on Monday September 27, 2021 @12:40PM (#28672897)
"how can you not categorize interactions with teachers and other faculty as not being in a different age group"

These are interactions, but form just a very limited subset of socializing. Most teachers remain fairly distant and unknown. Or at least that was my experience when going to school.

YMMV.

Re:Lockdown, distance learning likely to increase social cla... by fighterpilot on Monday September 27, 2021 @04:03PM (#28675343)
Almost nobody is building meaningful relationships outside of their year group. It's an unhealthy state of affairs that wasn't this way in our ancestral past. A side effect of going for economies of scale in schooling. It contributed to my own immaturity as a teenager. I would've been better off with actual friends older than me and especially some actual friends older than 25.

This is one thing home schooling has going for it, where the social life is built around activities with other home schooled kids who likely differ in age. It's much harder for kids to get caught up in the typical pet immaturities and stupidities of their age group.

Re:Lockdown, distance learning likely to increase social cla... by verall on Monday September 27, 2021 @04:04PM (#28675355)
In my American public school, and likely where the parent is from, there are not mixed-grade lunches, clubs, or any classes, until around 9th grade or 14ish years old. Interactions with teachers and faculty is extremely limited by the ratio (at least 1:20) and the context ("You need to remain quiet and do as we tell you").

Kids that have siblings, neighborhood friends, or social activities like boy scouts, which generally include children over a range of ages, really appreciate it.

It sounds like your school had access to this stuff already though, do you think it was valuable?

Re:Lockdown, distance learning likely to increase social cla... by Nasrudith on Monday September 27, 2021 @02:33PM (#28674271)
Yeah - mosr schools are frankly missocialization. It "works" because it is a largely synchronized one which sets the norms which are accepted.
Re:Lockdown, distance learning likely to increase social cla... by CharlesW on Monday September 27, 2021 @11:37AM (#28672006)
I'm wondering: Do we understand the long-term impact of this lack of "social school" from how homeschooled kids do post-education?
Re:Lockdown, distance learning likely to increase social cla... by OldHand2018 on Monday September 27, 2021 @12:04PM (#28672444)
There are a wide variety of homeschool types. But in general, homeschool parents make conscious efforts to ensure the kids get social activities.

In standard school, there are very rigid age-based hierarchies. Sixth graders rule over fifth graders, who rule over fourth graders. And the adults rule over all of them. And then you have the cliques, etc.

You'll find that such hierarchies do not exist in the homeschool world, and the kids are better for it. If the homeschool environment is religion-based, you'll probably find that the children do not know how to interact well with people in other religions, but you still have excellent interactions between age groups.

Re:Lockdown, distance learning likely to increase social cla... by orwin on Monday September 27, 2021 @12:50PM (#28673056)
I'm not in the US, we have a far smaller culture of homeschooling here from what i read, but due to my pre-dev activities and social engagements (i was young and full of hope :) ), i met a bit more than two dozen homeschooled children.

They all did pretty heavy extracurricular activities. Keep in mind that i met them in a particular time, either as a youth camp counselor or as a "street educator" (not really, basically i animated open physics classes with experiments/construction for kids, think Kiwico but free and with social settings).

They also were quite late in STEM, even those with engineers parents (definitely not the majority), but at least bilingual (i saw a 10 year old girl speaking 4 languages and playing violin better than i did). The most "advanced" i saw (at least in mathematics principles and understanding) where those with a formal musical education. Most of them could play at least one instrument, but those who understood underlying music principle were definitely more likely to "get" physics and engineering for some reasons. I think pattern recognition is definitely important for people to understand STEM work, and that can explain my limited, anecdotal data.

Another common point is that each of their familly were fairly religious (or spiritual rather), but not close-minded. I think around half were christian (not really defined), and the other half were more new-age. No Chomsky day for any of the famillies.

[edit] It's quite unfair from me, putting them in boxes like christian and new-age. Let say around half of them believed in a single entity we could call god creating the universe and guiding humanity, and the other half believing that the universe himself (or Nature, or the soul) guide them. I'm pretty sure one couple were active dualist proponents

Re:Lockdown, distance learning likely to increase social cla... by packetlost on Monday September 27, 2021 @11:52AM (#28672224)
Anecdotal, but I grew up in a cult that encouraged home-schooling. While I was lucky and did not get home schooled, nearly every person I know who did was socially stunted in some way.
Re:Lockdown, distance learning likely to increase social cla... by ryandrake on Monday September 27, 2021 @12:56PM (#28673151)
I wouldn't say the homeschooled people I have encountered were "stunted" but definitely "different enough to not gel smoothly with the rest of society." They kind of just run in totally different circles: They socialize but with a totaly disjoint set of kids. All their friends are from their church and they don't know anyone in public school, their parents take them to totally different movies (Christian movies, no Marvel superheroes), listen to totally different music. Can't talk sports with them because they literally can't name a football team. No culture overlap at all. Totally siloed off in their own world.

Maybe these traits are specific to Christian homeschoolers and not homeschoolers in general, but frankly I have never met someone who was homeschooled because of secular, rather than religious reasons.

Re:Lockdown, distance learning likely to increase social cla... by oceanplexian on Monday September 27, 2021 @01:47PM (#28673790)
I don’t think life would be worse off if I never watched popular movies or if Football didn’t exist. I have actually given this some thought given recent events.

These last two years have changed my perspective. While the vast majority of people were bathing in hand sanitizer, hoarding toilet paper, locking themselves away in quarantine, and avoiding elevator buttons, the people who were least in tune with popular culture (Religious, rural, etc.) seemed like the most rational actors. In my opinion turning off the TV and ignoring mass media, sports, culture is probably the most healthy thing a person could do.

Re:Lockdown, distance learning likely to increase social cla... by dragonwriter on Monday September 27, 2021 @01:02PM (#28673238)
> I wouldn't say the homeschooled people I have encountered were "stunted" but definitely "different enough to not gel smoothly with the rest of society."

IME, the homeschooled people raised by people (homeschooled or not) to whom that description does not apply also do not tend to fit it, but people to whom (again, homeschooled themselves or not) that description does apply are overrepresented among those choosing homeschooling for their kids.

Re:Lockdown, distance learning likely to increase social cla... by d883kd8 on Monday September 27, 2021 @02:16PM (#28674072)
Personally I was homeschooled and sports was one of the main points of common ground I had with kids from "regular school"
Re:Lockdown, distance learning likely to increase social cla... by loonster on Monday September 27, 2021 @12:05PM (#28672449)
There is a wide range of socialization that happens in homeschool. Some kids are practically hermits, only meeting other kids during church. Other kids have a full schedule of extracurricular activities that rival HS and college kids.
Re:Lockdown, distance learning likely to increase social cla... by txsoftwaredev on Monday September 27, 2021 @05:47PM (#28676443)
As a parent of three home schooled children, the social aspect is always brought up by those not informed about home schooling. My kids are socialized through various group activities (P.E, dance, piano, art classes etc.) and with close friends. They also have friends of various age groups since they are not forced to socialize with kids of their age group as they would in public schools. Overall I find the social aspect to be of higher quality than my experience as a kid going through public schools. One big benefit is not having to deal with being bullied, which is very common in public schools.
Re:Lockdown, distance learning likely to increase social cla... by PoignardAzur on Monday September 27, 2021 @06:53PM (#28677123)
There's this joke I often see about homeschooling: "I didn't want my kid to miss out on the high school social experience, so I beat him up and stole his lunch money."
Re:Lockdown, distance learning likely to increase social cla... by _-david-_ on Monday September 27, 2021 @12:38PM (#28672880)
This is not universal but there are often times groups of homeschooling families that get together and have their kids socialize. It is likely significantly less than at school but probably changes the formula a bit.
Re:Lockdown, distance learning likely to increase social cla... by missinfo on Monday September 27, 2021 @11:57AM (#28672319)
The counterargument is that it's an artificial socialization. You are put in a group based on age; an axis we don't segregate on beyond school. It means you are mostly being socialized by other kids of the same age. It's the blind leading the blind. It's cliques. It's bullies. It's mean girls. I think it's a special kind of torture for both the body and mind.
Re:Lockdown, distance learning likely to increase social cla... by Spivak on Monday September 27, 2021 @11:36AM (#28671986)
And there's not really an age where this stops either. Socialization is an ongoing life-long process. I'm sure all the exceptions will be in my replies but we need social interaction in order to not go crazy. And with our shitty hyper-individualistic culture, work and school is the only non-parasocial human interaction a lot of people get.