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Re:How to make housing more affordable by SaberTail on Saturday September 25, 2021 @02:56PM (#28655335)
This ignores the inherent contradiction in current housing policy: housing cannot be both a good investment and affordable.

If housing is a good investment, that means it's appreciating faster than inflation, which will make it increasingly unaffordable as time passes.

If housing is affordable, and remains so, then it is not appreciating enough to make a good investment.

For decades, governments have made policies to make housing into a good investment. Things like government guarantees on mortgages to reduce the interest rate, mortgage interest deductions, property tax limits, and (yes) restricting the supply of housing through permits and zoning are all policies that serve to make housing a good investment, at the expense of affordability.

Re:How to make housing more affordable by frankbreetz on Saturday September 25, 2021 @09:04PM (#28657492)
Houses can definitely be an investment and only increase with inflation. If I buy a house as an investment, I get rent every month. If the house appreciates 0%, it could still be a good investment if the rent is good enough returns.

Your premise only holds true if you buy a house and keep it empty, and are only getting returns by the appreciation of the property, but this should be illegal anyway.

Re:How to make housing more affordable by tptacek on Saturday September 25, 2021 @03:10PM (#28655451)
It doesn't ignore the contradiction; it acknowledges it very early on in the article, in a paragraph dedicated to the point. "Would my net worth suffer if housing was affordable?" the paragraph opens. "Yes."
Re:How to make housing more affordable by rsj_hn on Saturday September 25, 2021 @03:17PM (#28655507)
Yes, this is like a breath of fresh air. A lot of people think we have what seem to be intractable problems because a shadowy group is sobatoging The Popular Will. But the truth of the matter is we have intractable problems because there are tough trade offs, and having frank conversations about these trade offs is unpleasant, thus we focus on the Shadowy Group.
Re:How to make housing more affordable by jjj123 on Monday September 27, 2021 @10:39AM (#28671172)
Yep. I’d rather we have political conversations that were frank about the trade offs and focused on material change.

An example: Medicare for all. Bottom 90% will save money, top 10% will lose money, healthcare system will be free at point of service and won’t be tied to employment. Doctors will still be rich but will make less money. Anyone invested in insurance industries will certainly lose here.

I’d argue that discussing policy in material terms is only unpleasant for the powerful, because they are a minority trying to convince the majority to vote against their interests. When it’s all laid out it’s clear where the majority’s interests lie.

Re:How to make housing more affordable by tptacek on Monday September 27, 2021 @11:50AM (#28672190)
You should be careful about the assumption that you've got this stuff all worked out and that there's a clear set of tradeoffs. There's a strong case to be made against M4A that has nothing to do with "the minority trying to convince the majority to vote against their interests". That sentiment has a name: it's called "populism". It's the opposite of reasoned consideration of policy.
Re:How to make housing more affordable by bitcuration on Saturday September 25, 2021 @09:15PM (#28657546)
You're confused about affordability with inflation vs. affordable house.

Sounds like your real question should be can anything is affordable in a hyper-inflation time.

Housing is anchored in inflation, no better or worse. Therefore housing built in with wealth as inflation doesn't hurt housing. By destroying wealth it doesn't make house affordable, only make worse hyper-inflation.

Come on, thought this is ecom 101. What do colleges teach these days?

Re:How to make housing more affordable by mindslight on Sunday September 26, 2021 @12:33AM (#28658413)
Well they certainly haven't been teaching system dynamics.

The price of manufactured goods has dropped significantly, thanks to technological progress and offshoring. The Fed has a mandate that average consumer prices must always be going up. Housing is one of the few areas where the Fed can create monetary inflation that reaches consumers, since instead of giving away newly-created money it generally has to be in the form of loans. Therefore, the price of housing will shoot up to compensate for manufactured goods dropping. And the more efficient technology becomes, the worse the effect will be.

Re:How to make housing more affordable by cyber_kinetist on Sunday September 26, 2021 @12:54AM (#28658497)
Why does the Fed has a mandate to make average consumer prices increase in the first place? What does the increase of CPI have to do anything with the growth of an economy? And why is the Fed including housing (which is not a consumer good) to calculate CPI?
Re:How to make housing more affordable by ianai on Saturday September 25, 2021 @10:00PM (#28657760)
Agree. I seem to remember RE being “on average” an inflation hedge. Though locality of course matters hugely. RE somewhere a lot of people want to be will be bid up. RE in the middle of nowhere can be built and sold pretty much at whatever it cost.
Re:How to make housing more affordable by adverbly on Saturday September 25, 2021 @09:03PM (#28657486)
Owning and then selling a house should not be a good investment. What you do with it is supposed to make it a good investment. This idea that investing means squatting valuable assets needs to die. Save on rent, farm, rent to others, make a shop... preventing others who would put the land to better use is doing more harm than good.
Re:How to make housing more affordable by fredophile on Saturday September 25, 2021 @08:38PM (#28657384)
Housing prices don't need to beat inflation to be a good investment. If I don't own, I pay rent. Rent will go up with inflation but my mortgage is a fixed cost. By paying a mortgage instead of rent I save money long term.

Since buying a house comes with a large opportunity cost it may not be the best investment even if it is a decent one.

Re:How to make housing more affordable by jseliger on Saturday September 25, 2021 @09:55PM (#28657727)
Re:How to make housing more affordable by sudosysgen on Sunday September 26, 2021 @11:34AM (#28661690)
Oh come on, that's assuming a 30 year mortgage with 5% interests and not taking into account inflation of rent.

Take into account rent inflation and use 2.5% interest rates and then we'll see...

Re:How to make housing more affordable by otabdeveloper4 on Sunday September 26, 2021 @01:22AM (#28658626)
> housing cannot be both a good investment and affordable

Yes it can, if you let people invest into development projects at the venture stage. (This carries inherent risk, of course, but not as much as you think.)

Re:How to make housing more affordable by ibeckermayer on Sunday September 26, 2021 @04:01AM (#28659194)
Is this currently illegal?
Re:How to make housing more affordable by shalmanese on Saturday September 25, 2021 @03:56PM (#28655778)
You can simultaneously make land a good investment and housing affordable by supporting infill densification.
Re:How to make housing more affordable by sudosysgen on Saturday September 25, 2021 @08:29PM (#28657334)
Only for a while. Eventually density starts becoming just as expensive as land.
Re:How to make housing more affordable by ch4s3 on Saturday September 25, 2021 @03:02PM (#28655383)
Housing is multiple markets even within narrow geographic bounds. We could produce a lot of apartments and they would be affordable, but a single family home a mile away may still gain value faster than inflation.

Making the ownership of a single family home affordable is in contradiction with making that a good investment vehicle.

Re:How to make housing more affordable by civilized on Saturday September 25, 2021 @03:07PM (#28655424)
It would be great if cryptocurrency moved people's irrational fetish for artificially scarce, low-risk, rapidly appreciating assets into the digital sphere. Then we could be rid of this curse in the real world, where it ruins lives and societies.