Outside of the US is prescribed quite often. It is in the Mexican Health System Protocol ([1] page 6) and has been widely researched [2] in there. Also, in Mexico Ivermectin was widely available (without prescription) before Covid19. It is commonly used in children against lice, and also in the general population as a dewormer once a year (in Mexico, people are used to take these type of medications once a year).

I understand the hesitation Americans have against it, given its lack of availability (I would never consume a medicine made for animals) but from my outside perspective, the issue has been politicized so much that both "left" and "right" Americans get blinded by their views and are not open to even talk about it (it's either, you eat dewormer antivaxxer! or muh freedom!).

I got my two vaccines as soon as I could (I had covid in march 2020 and had a terrible time, and I am totally pro vaccines, shit in Mexico we get a heck of a lot of vaccines haha) but given the safety profile of Ivermectin, I am 100% in favour of people taking it if they get COVID19.

[1] http://educacionensalud.imss.gob.mx/es/system/files/Algoritm...

[2] https://covid19.cdmx.gob.mx/storage/app/media/Articulos/revi...

> (I would never consume a medicine made for animals)

Why not?

I either pay $150+ all up for a doctor visit, prescription, etc for antibiotics, or $20 for a bottle of "fish antibiotics" at the feed store. Either way I get amoxicillin; but from the feed store I get 3x the amount and in smaller capsules which makes adjusting dose easier.

We stock the "horse paste" ivermectin for our half dozen hounds, I've been known to have a lick of it myself when ive been out barefoot in the mud, just in case. we have whipworm out here and they're not likely to take in humans but when they do its nasty.

I take it you have no problem eating dog food for your 3 square meals a day plus a few of those chew biscuits for a snack?

It is kind of crunchy.

Imagine the wet type would go rather well on Carr's Table Water crackers. Could jazz it up with a name like Pate di Cane, perhaps add a dollop of creme fraiche for appearance

I am thinking a more authentic experience than that.

Up end the can into a metal bowl, chuck it on the floor and whistle that dinner is ready. Then if you have been a really good boy, hang around under the dinner table and hope some people food scraps will find their way into your lap.

Fish antibiotics might be fine, but since they aren't regulated for human consumption it's more of a gamble. Plenty of chemicals that don't hurt fish that the manufacturer therefore won't be testing for that can be harmful to a human. But more importantly in the case of antibiotics: how do you know amoxicillin is the right one for what ails you? There are multiple antibiotics for multiple bacteria, and applying the wrong one can throw your microbiome out of whack with no treatment to the disease itself.

Health care in the US is broken for several reasons, but "Doctors see a patient before prescribing the right medicine" isn't one of them. DIY medicine has dangers, and the FDA regulations are paid for in blood.

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/here-are-reaso...

> how do you know amoxicillin is the right one for what ails you?

In our case, that's what the doctor prescribes for my wife's chronic sinus infections whenever she asks one about them, and I've been stocking it as a goto first antibiotic for veterinary use since i started caring for my animals 30yr ago.

In anyone else's case, there's no great barrier to educating yourself about what you put in your body and why, and taking responsibility for your own health. Doctors are consultants, not priests.

> Doctors are consultants, not priests.

Oh man you couldn't be more spot on. There's no magic in what doctors do and how doctors prescribe a medication. There are two advantages that a doctor can have over an educated layman: 1) Experience: the number of cases they have seen and thus can make an educated inference to what is going on. 2) Their knowledge of anatomy (all they studied during their 4-6 years education).

Having been living with a chronic condition for more than 20 years, having gone to more than 10 specialists in 3 different countries and countless of studies I've seen the limitation of Medical Doctors (they are human beens at the end). There comes a time when you get to see that you understand your body better than any doctor could.

Your circumstance is one of the flaws in the US system. Having been given a solid diagnosis once for that initial $150 charge, instead of relatively-inexpensive maintenance of health that could be done without doctor intervention, we require doctors to re-see and re-prescribe when a patient has a chronic condition.

There is some wisdom in that (while "when you hear hoofbeats, think horses, not zebra" is a good maxim, sometimes it's horses and zebra), but IMHO once you're diagnosed with something chronic and treatable, minimize the red-tape to keep it treated.

>Having been given a solid diagnosis once for that initial $150 charge, instead of relatively-inexpensive maintenance of health that could be done without doctor intervention, we require doctors to re-see and re-prescribe when a patient has a chronic condition.

>There is some wisdom in that

It's pretty convenient for the doctors as well. $150 to write some shit on a pad and sign it. Good work if you can get it.

Humans are very complicated, and writing the wrong stuff on a pad can get someone killed.

Amoxicillin isn't available without a prescription because using the wrong antibiotic on a disease can make the patient worse.

The example I was replying to was when the patient was already diagnosed with a chronic illness and still had to go back to the doctor every month or so to renew the script, because reasons.

Me too.

When the disease is something that requires frequent reapplication of antibiotics, it's important to confirm periodically that they're working (and that the problem isn't a different bacteria that's amoxicillin-resistant).

That's a convenient method when the patient can also make a phone call / appointment to inform the doctor they don't seem to be working rather than extorting (and I'm not using that word lightly) $150+ a month. Also consider the multitudes of other medications where there is no real argument to require a monthly extortion fee.

It seems to be this is more for the benefit of the healthcare system financially rather than the patient or the health of the population as a whole.

> Also consider the multitudes of other medications where there is no real argument to require a monthly extortion fee.

I think that's really where one needs to look to square the circle. The drugs available prescription-free have lower risk of injury or disruption when abused. Antibiotics are not in that category, which is why they require doctor oversight and a prescription. Take too much, and you can damage your digestive tract. Take too little, or the wrong kind, and you can worsen the infection by killing the bacteria that the immune system can control, leaving their food supply for the ones the immune system is struggling against.

They could require less doctor oversight perhaps, but probably not zero.

My mistake; my comment was extremely US-centric.

In the US, there isn't a taboo against taking it because it's generally animal-prescribed; it's used as a human anti-parasitic here too. The issue is that people are self-medicating with veterinary-supply doses because it isn't prescribed for COVID-19 (as it's not indicated for treating it).

Fortunately for me, I know next to nothing about ivermectin, except that the American left is very, very concerned people might be taking it, and I don't know of anyone actually taking it that doesn't have a radio show or podcast. So in my ignorance I would guess very few people are actually taking it and a lot of people are talking about it.

Alternate data point, I live in one of the major cities in Oklahoma. I work for a mostly blue collar shop. The overwhelming majority of our workers are unvaccinated, and I'd say a large fraction of them are very vocal about their use of ivermectin.

People are turning up in hospitals because they've OD'd on it.

No they aren't. All of those reports have been retracted.

https://news.ohsu.edu/2021/09/17/five-oregonians-hospitalize... doesn't look retracted to me.

Only stands to reason that if people are taking it kind of randomly, a few are going to screw up and take too much.

Probably ingested the pour on treatment or one of the brands that mix other active ingredients that you don't want.

Not once in that article is an overdose mentioned.

So you're suggesting that taking even a regular dose might send people to the ICU?

The article linked simply says there have been people who misused ivermectin who presented at the hospital. For what reason they went we have no idea because it does not say.

For all we know the two individuals who landed in the ICU were admitted because they were attempting to unsuccessfully self-treat COVID and ended up there, not because of the ivermectin misuse but because of COVID itself.

There's a right-wing group prescribing it: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/America%27s_Frontline_Doctor...

They're also the ones that pushed Hydroxychloroquine, have connections to the Tea Party, that "demon semen" lady Trump endorsed is associated with them, and they had their leader and their chief of communication arrested due to their participation in Jan 6th.

They're also the reason you'll see Joe Rogan now spreading ivermectin bullshit.

They've also been selling telemedicine consultations to prescribe ivermectin, taking the money, and then not delivering the consultation [1]. They are a straight up scam posing as a charity.

[1] https://time.com/6092368/americas-frontline-doctors-covid-19...

> given that it's not generally prescribed for COVID-19

This is disinformation, it turns out. Plenty of doctors are prescribing it. Anyone in the US can go online to one of a dozen telemedicine services and get a prescription for an appropriate dose of ivermectin within hours. This can then be filled at any pharmacy in most states which prohibit pharmacists from refusing to fill prescriptions because they heard on CNN it was for horses. But the media will never report this.

What percentage does "plenty" represent?