News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
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Re:Alabama Had More Deaths Than Births in 2020 by fortran77 on Tuesday September 21, 2021 @10:29PM (#28612526)
Hacker News has a real problem when it comes to trying to understand people with different backgrounds, mindsets, and values.
Re:Alabama Had More Deaths Than Births in 2020 by chronotis on Tuesday September 21, 2021 @10:38PM (#28612571)
In this instance, I don't think it's a problem specific to the HN community.
Re:Alabama Had More Deaths Than Births in 2020 by rpmisms on Tuesday September 21, 2021 @10:38PM (#28612576)
For some, "Give me Liberty or give me Death!" is simply an anachronistic saying. For others, it's an important motto.
Re:Alabama Had More Deaths Than Births in 2020 by hilbert42 on Tuesday September 21, 2021 @11:11PM (#28612745)
This is fine if the person saying it is the only one involved. Unfortunately, there are many in that community - for example children not yet of age - who have absolutely no say in the matter. Thus it's incumbent on people like us to at least try to help them. QED.
Re:Alabama Had More Deaths Than Births in 2020 by raxxorrax on Wednesday September 22, 2021 @03:51AM (#28614002)
Children aren't really victims of Covid aside from their parents being affected maybe and the restriction put on them.
Re:Alabama Had More Deaths Than Births in 2020 by rpmisms on Tuesday September 21, 2021 @11:17PM (#28612777)
If Covid impacted the general population the same way it did kids, this would be over by now. We know who the vulnerable people are, and almost all of them are over 50. I don't think that's the best way to approach the issue.

Fundamental freedoms can be dangerous. This is something that's hard to admit for people who've never experienced the more real side of life, the people who haven't stared death in the eye before.

Patrick Henry was not the only person involved when he made his declaration. Many people died, due in part to his words. Life is nasty, hard, and has a 100% mortality rate.

Let me put it this way: would becoming a full police state be worth it to you, if it eliminated Covid? No? Where's the line?

Re:Alabama Had More Deaths Than Births in 2020 by hilbert42 on Wednesday September 22, 2021 @12:22AM (#28613083)
"...and almost all of them are over 50."

Not true with delta, sorry!

Re:Alabama Had More Deaths Than Births in 2020 by rpmisms on Wednesday September 22, 2021 @03:59AM (#28614050)
Sure, Delta is more transmissible, but it's not more deadly, as far as any metrics have been able to tell.
Re:Alabama Had More Deaths Than Births in 2020 by taylodl on Wednesday September 22, 2021 @10:19AM (#28616585)
The story I've heard is Delta isn't any more deadly to the over 50 crowd, but it's definitely more deadly to the under 50 crowd. I understand there's been a surge of younger adults going to the hospitals and ICUs and young children are filling up the children's hospitals. I suspect the younger people respond better to treatment, but I don't have any stats to reinforce that suspicion. Even so, they're filling hospitals and there have already been cases where people having non-Covid related issues have died while trying to find a hospital able to admit them. It's a mess.
Re:Alabama Had More Deaths Than Births in 2020 by rpmisms on Saturday September 25, 2021 @05:33PM (#28656388)
That story isn't backed up by any numbers I've seen.
Re:Alabama Had More Deaths Than Births in 2020 by tclancy on Tuesday September 21, 2021 @11:28PM (#28612824)
> Life is nasty, hard, and has a 100% mortality rate.

The same is true of rabies. Say what you actually mean.

Re:Alabama Had More Deaths Than Births in 2020 by rpmisms on Wednesday September 22, 2021 @12:07AM (#28613017)
I'm saying what I mean. Death happens. Doing everything possible to stop death infringes on basic human rights. Where's the line?
Re:Alabama Had More Deaths Than Births in 2020 by hilbert42 on Wednesday September 22, 2021 @12:06AM (#28613015)
I have, and very clearly at that.
Re:Alabama Had More Deaths Than Births in 2020 by jrochkind1 on Tuesday September 21, 2021 @11:13PM (#28612760)
As does the entire USA.

I couldn't say about the rest of the world.

Re:Alabama Had More Deaths Than Births in 2020 by codetrotter on Tuesday September 21, 2021 @10:40PM (#28612588)
I keep thinking, even though I myself have gotten vaccinated against COVID-19, and I wish that as many people as possible get the vaccine too so we can have a chance of herd immunity, that in a way maybe a small small amount of people not getting vaccinated is good.

I think of this because I think, even though I trust the vaccine to be safe, what if there are unknown side-effects. In that way it is good that some people don’t get vaccinated. So that humanity still has some people that don’t get those side effects.

So in a way, it would be like a natural way for the human race as a whole, to continue existing, by some people not getting vaccinated and possibly being the ones that made the right choice after all.

Does that make sense? I think it does. Even though I believe in the vaccine. But I am talking about the bigger picture of the humanity as a whole over the whole course of its history. That it’s like a strategy that helps us survive by having us believe different things and therefore acting differently on the same information. And that sometimes one group of people is right, and usually it’s the majority group. But that this helps us survive those times when the minority is actually right.

Re:Alabama Had More Deaths Than Births in 2020 by rpmisms on Tuesday September 21, 2021 @10:41PM (#28612593)
I think you're going to get some shit, but I agree. Lock-step action is almost never the smartest solution, even if it may be the right one.
Re:Alabama Had More Deaths Than Births in 2020 by hilbert42 on Tuesday September 21, 2021 @11:03PM (#28612707)
I have already but I'm used to it. As I said in my reply, what matters most is concern for those who'll be infected next and those who are already dying.

If awkward language has to be used to rectify things/save lives then so be it (it may as well be me as anyone else). I have difficulty understanding why this is not the correct and proper thing to do. What's so wrong with stating the obvious truth?

It seems to me that these days sensibilities and what people think are more important than saving lives. If this is in fact so, then heaven help us.

Re:Alabama Had More Deaths Than Births in 2020 by taylodl on Wednesday September 22, 2021 @10:27AM (#28616662)
Not everybody is able to get the vaccine. That's why the vaccination goal isn't 100% of the population, it's 100% of the eligible population. Even that can't be achieved - as it's never been achieved with any other vaccine. That's all known and was anticipated. What wasn't anticipated was how low the vaccination rate would be and the leading indicator of whether the vaccination rate is high or low in a particular area is whether the majority of the voters are registered as Republicans or Democrats. No one saw that coming, yet here we are.
Re:Alabama Had More Deaths Than Births in 2020 by _3u10 on Tuesday September 21, 2021 @11:23PM (#28612797)
In BC where I live we have 85% of people vaccinated. We are back in lockdown with mask mandates and vaccine passports.

They are still going on about the unvaccinated, there’s no such thing as herd immunity in the politics of COVID lockdowns.

Re:Alabama Had More Deaths Than Births in 2020 by adgjlsfhk1 on Tuesday September 21, 2021 @11:35PM (#28612870)
Probably because those 15% of people are driving 50% or more of the spread. One of the reasons Delta is such a big deal is that it raised the herd immunity threshold from around 70% to around 95% (of 2 dose MRNA based, J&J wouldn't be strong enough to provide herd immunity if 100% of people had it).
Re:Alabama Had More Deaths Than Births in 2020 by _3u10 on Tuesday September 21, 2021 @11:42PM (#28612910)
I’m sure they are… however…

Sweden has 65% vaccinated and no mask mandates or passports, or mandatory vaccines. It’s purely a political decision and nothing to do with this or that rate.

Previously BC had 1/10th of the infections no one vaccinated and we were open for business.

Re:Alabama Had More Deaths Than Births in 2020 by hilbert42 on Tuesday September 21, 2021 @11:52PM (#28612954)
Life is deadly, it eventually kills you and everyone around you whether you like it or not#.

Life's a risk from well before you were born until the day you die. Taking risks everyday is what life's all about. That said, when transversing life's obstacles it's incumbent on you to do your best to not trample on others and thus increase their risks. And sometimes that means taking additional risks yourself as it's the right and proper thing to do as it minimize the risks for others - and here that additional risk is pretty insignificant - that of bring vaccinated.

I'd contend that those who aren't prepared to take that risk are acting selfishly. If not, then they're spooked or damn scared.

Why some people in the US, where there's access to good eduation, verifiably accurate information, etc., and yet they still refuse to accept evidence and logical argument is one of the big conundrums of our time. Still, even with all these obstacles in hand it's our duty to help them, difficult as that may be.

# That's a raw point at the moment for me as a close friend of some decades died a few days ago (no, it wasn't COVID).

Re:Alabama Had More Deaths Than Births in 2020 by rubinelli on Tuesday September 21, 2021 @11:09PM (#28612736)
Even though we talk about "the" vaccine, there isn't only one; there are half a dozen different vaccines being administered world-wide, using different methods of production. We're talking about all these independently-developed vaccines failing catastrophically in a way no other vaccine has ever failed before -- reactions after two weeks are incredibly rare. We're thousands of times more likely to be wiped out by a meteor.
Re:Alabama Had More Deaths Than Births in 2020 by rpmisms on Tuesday September 21, 2021 @11:11PM (#28612748)
Alternatively, Alex Jones could be right, and they're sophisticated tools to sterilize the vast majority of people.

This is obviously ridiculous, but it's why you should always have a control group.

Re:Alabama Had More Deaths Than Births in 2020 by rubinelli on Tuesday September 21, 2021 @11:26PM (#28612812)
Nope. The world didn't keep a control group for smallpox, even in the most distant villages. We simply eradicated it.
Re:Alabama Had More Deaths Than Births in 2020 by rpmisms on Tuesday September 21, 2021 @11:37PM (#28612885)
Smallpox wasn't eradicated by the vaccine. It wore itself out, and the (incredibly simple) vaccine helped a bit.
Re:Alabama Had More Deaths Than Births in 2020 by hilbert42 on Wednesday September 22, 2021 @12:19AM (#28613073)
Veritably factual evidence please. Now, ASAP.

With a claim of that magnitude you shouldn't need to look far, as you'd be able to spot the evidence from afar no matter what direction you looked.

Re:Alabama Had More Deaths Than Births in 2020 by hilbert42 on Wednesday September 22, 2021 @12:08AM (#28613026)
Where's the evidence? Show me!

BTW, everyone who I know including myself haven't had the slightest of problems.

Re:Alabama Had More Deaths Than Births in 2020 by nradov on Tuesday September 21, 2021 @11:19PM (#28612783)
Right. There's very little in common between, let's say, the Moderna and Sputnik vaccines. The effects appear to be similar but the underlying technology is completely different.
Re:Alabama Had More Deaths Than Births in 2020 by jbigelow76 on Tuesday September 21, 2021 @10:51PM (#28612645)
I keep thinking, even though I myself have gotten vaccinated against COVID-19, and I wish that as many people as possible get the vaccine to so we can have a chance of herd immunity, that in a way maybe a small small amount of people not getting vaccinated is good.

Imagine reading that sentence in a newspaper op-ed in 1956 but with the word "polio" in place of "COVID-19".

Re:Alabama Had More Deaths Than Births in 2020 by BoHerfVJrEsq on Tuesday September 21, 2021 @11:11PM (#28612753)
Eh, do you think I could make some statement of yours sound weird if I were to substitute "ebola" for some other word you used? Is this useful?
Re:Alabama Had More Deaths Than Births in 2020 by hilbert42 on Tuesday September 21, 2021 @10:50PM (#28612641)
True, but that has no bearing on facts. And I did use the word 'perhaps'.

The tragedy is people are dying there more than many other places in the US, so that begs the question as to why. Covering the issues up with sweet words or ignoring them doesn't help the next lot who'll become infected and those who are seriously ill and about to die.

Re:Alabama Had More Deaths Than Births in 2020 by tclancy on Tuesday September 21, 2021 @11:26PM (#28612818)
What are facts, exactly?
Re:Alabama Had More Deaths Than Births in 2020 by shock-value on Tuesday September 21, 2021 @11:36PM (#28612878)
Scientific evidence, in this case that the vaccines are statistically effective and safe.