All: This post is on topic because of the interesting historical material. HN is for intellectual curiosity (https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html).

If it excites stronger emotions (or sensations) in you than intellectual curiosity, please don't post to this thread. There are 28 other things on the front page to read*, and we don't want tedious flamewars here.

(* maybe avoid the covid leak debate thread too)

I wish I had known earlier that Brenda Howard (Mother of Pride) was leather-adjacent, if not outright identified as Leather herself. Would've been many years of shame evaporated right there had Leather history been more accessible, and on a lighter note, it always amuses me when younger folks argue against "leather at pride" not knowing her direct involvement.

This was a fantastic essay, and I'm glad it was written and posted separately. Thank you. For others reading this comment, links that may be of interest and further research:

- Leather Archives - (http://leatherarchives.org/) incredible museum that collects the lived history of those who found themselves in this subculture and identity.

- "Leather Resources" (http://kradeelav.com/leather-resources.html) Showcasing some of the Leather-related links that I've slowly collected over the years while trying to track down and preserve even a little bit of history. Extremely fun rabbit trails from here. :)

(I write this post as a bisexual woman in a long-term relationship with another woman. Leather is the only LGBT+ label I remotely felt at home in, for many private/personal reasons.)

> Consent is key to healthy BDSM practice, but the public did not consent to seeing these sexual displays (...). By wearing leather harnesses and chaining each other up in broad daylight, kinksters have unethically involved non-consenting bystanders in a BDSM scene for their own (likely sexual) gratification.

Do young people have such a warped view of consent now that wearing a leather harness in public is considered "unethically involving non-consenting bystanders in a BDSM scene"?? Ahh, the culture of "I am a greater victim than thou" hath no boundaries.

There is a case to be made about some kinks; someone with a humiliation kink (often exercised by being led around on a leash) is getting close to the line (if not crossing it) of non-consensually involving others in their scene.

Though I agree with you that just "wearing a leather harness" is a pretty innocuous, and in general people don't require consent for their wardrobes in public. And on top of that, going to pride and then complaining about other attendees is at best a bit silly and at worst completely missing the point.

I think consent here is trivial to understand when you talk about a kink most everyone understands: naked skin.

Being naked isn't per se a sexual act, obviously. I don't need anyone's consent exposing my body e.g. going swimming in a lake.

On the other hand, someone getting off exposing theirselves to strangers is involving unconsenting strangers sexually.

Wearing a harness or demonstrating the lifestyle perfomatively does not include strangers in a scene.

Playing in public for e.g. public humiliation on the other hand, is involving unconsenting strangers sexually.

It's really not that hard. These concern trolls have an agenda.

"wearing leather harnesses and chaining each other up" is a bit different than just wearing a leather harness in public. But also how hard is it to just be civilized when you're in public? I don't need you to wear a suit and tie, but at least have some decency.

It's once a year. And the idea is to fight back against stigmas that have made such behavior illegal, or grounds for being fired, or having your kids taken away.

I don't know who needs to hear this, but having gay sex in the privacy of your home while you're tied up in a leather harness should not result in those consequences. Display of similar behaviors at Pride are intended to tell the larger world that they aren't going to stop being themselves. People need to grow a thicker skin and get used to the idea, so that Pride isn't necessary any longer.

I personally find that the most uncivilized people always come dressed in suit and tie.

Like any other thing, it depends on why someone wears it. A trans man wearing a traditional man's cut to celebrate getting top surgery at pride is probably not what you had in mind though.

Hm, I'd personally go with a bow tie.

Nothing wrong with those.

Boundaries that delineate these celebrations have been explicit in SF at least since I started going in the early 2000s. The intent is to create a safe space for participants. Within that realm at those times the boundaries represent the presence of that space and that "normal social conduct" is no longer the norm.

Who defines "civilized" and why does that seem to particularly exclude specific categories of people?

It's especially bad in the BDSM scene. Grown adults who act like the kid in school who would go around telling other kids they weren't following the rules. They treat victimhood and white knighting like a job.

For cishet folks on HN: this writing isn't about or for you. I've seen a lot of this community's homophobia, misogyny, transphobia, and generally reactionary political drift over the last 12 years--including replies to my technical writing. I know exactly how this conversation is going to go if it happens here. I'm asking y'all not to have it.

I'm returning a 403 on HN referrals to aphyr.com as a mild discouragement. I hope you'll respect this.

submitter, cishet dude, and long-time admirer of your work here.

I posted the link because i was impressed with your usual style and level of detail and thoughtful work.

it wasn’t my intention to feed the trolls; perhaps i haven’t spent enough time on Svalbard? :)

As a queer HN'er - thank you for writing and compiling this! It's quite some amount of work. Like you say, it's so important for a community to know its own history.

That’s a very aggressive posture. I would say HN is one of the best moderated places online where people of opposing beliefs can debate in good faith. I think casting the entire community as -phobic is very unfair.

Here's the thing though. When it's a predictable outcome that somebody in the crowd will post x-phobic responses to a given story, then it's completely unreasonable for an x-person to expect a lack of x-phobia. If you were more concerned about the frequency of x-phobia in this community, rather than taking offense at people speaking about the negative experiences at the hands of this community, perhaps the community wouldn't have the reputation that it does.

Blocking on referers is a defensive move, not at all aggressive.

you could actually read the essay, for a start:

We should remember that expressions of variant sexuality are not only a form of individual expression, but also a public good. Many asexual people and families enjoy seeing leather in Pride. Leather contingents demystify the community, reduce social stigma, create opportunities to meet and talk with kinksters, and help people discover new desires. Public floggings can balance misconceptions that impact is “just about pain,” and illustrate the possibility for emotional connection. Public bondage can be an art installation. In my personal experience marching and performing scenes in public, people on the street are far more curious, supportive, and delighted to see pups in hoods and men in rope than the present discourse would have us believe.

Finally: as several of the accounts in this history demonstrate, one’s own feelings about sexual displays can change dramatically over time. What was frightening or disgusting one year can be freeing, erotic, or beautiful the next. This points to the possibility of Pride as more than a space where we impose the standard norms of an imagined unitary public. As a polyvocal celebration, Pride offers us the chance not only to express ourselves, but also to see others’ expressions of a broad range of queer identities. With a little patience we can rejoice in others’ kaleidoscopic queerness—and sometimes, if we’re lucky, discover new aspects of our selves.

The history of Pride is also extensively discussed and cited heavily. Scolds of your tone are at least as old as pride, and still about as tone-deaf as ever.

We've banned this account for trolling. Please don't create accounts to do that with.