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Re:Norway is wealthy because of oil. Can it give up fossil f... by slibhb on Saturday September 18, 2021 @12:36PM (#28577446)
> Nigeria, Venezuela, Azerbaijan and Libya are corrupt because the US/UK/others install corrupt regimes and topple democratic ones.

There's no clear explanation for why some countries are rich and prosperous and free while others are not. Anyone claiming to have such a theory is bloviating.

Futher, you assume that the default is democracy and prosperity and we must explain why some countries lack that. But that's not the default! The default is corruption, privation, and instability. Those were certainly the conditions preceeding colonialism. The real question is how to escape that, and we have no particularly good theories there either.

Finally, the idea that certain countries have no agency is insulting and unhelpful.

Re:Norway is wealthy because of oil. Can it give up fossil f... by no_butterscotch on Saturday September 18, 2021 @12:28PM (#28577388)
I'm not disputing that Western nations have meddled in these countries too much.

But it seems like you're completely absolving these countries and peoples of all responsibility for their country and themselves, that in and of itself seems like the Western elites' "these people can't help themselves" approach.

The reality is likely a mix somewhere between the two, variable for each country and circumstance.

Re:Norway is wealthy because of oil. Can it give up fossil f... by tomtimtall on Saturday September 18, 2021 @03:01PM (#28578412)
Yes, It’s a mix of these people “not being able to help themselves” to fight off foreign government interference, and the foreign government interference. Similar to how people who get mugged are partly to blame for not being able to fight off the mugger.

It doesn’t matter how great a nation you have, if US comes along and decides to put in place a dictator to secure low oil prices.

If US invaded Norway tomorrow and put a corrupt religious fundamentalist in power, there is absolutely no way you could blame it on the country, the religion or the color of the skin of he people living there.

Re:Norway is wealthy because of oil. Can it give up fossil f... by foobarbazbarfoo on Saturday September 18, 2021 @01:05PM (#28577669)
> A perfect example is Iraq -- the US installed Saddam Hussein, then armed him, let me rule the country to despair, then the US spent two decades removing him and re-destroying the country. All the while, cheap to free oil was extracted from the nation for the benefit of western powers. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oil-for-Food_Programme

As an Iraqi I am tired of people absolving us of agency as if the US just walks in and installs rulers left and right. There was no let there be Saddam, there were a lot of power grabs, internal struggle, and consolidation that happens before someone like Saddam becomes Saddam, and the most a western power can do is provide funds or international legitimacy

Re:Norway is wealthy because of oil. Can it give up fossil f... by Jensson on Saturday September 18, 2021 @12:21PM (#28577331)
Do you really argue that Muammar Gaddafi was democratically elected? He ruled as a dictator for 40 years until the Arab spring toppled his regime. He didn't come to power thanks to western influence, rather his coup was based on the anti west group.
Re:Norway is wealthy because of oil. Can it give up fossil f... by Y_Y on Saturday September 18, 2021 @01:06PM (#28577679)
Who installed the corrupt regime in Azerbaijan? And why do you not include Swedish and Danish control of Norway?
Re:Norway is wealthy because of oil. Can it give up fossil f... by mirekrusin on Saturday September 18, 2021 @12:22PM (#28577338)
What about Brazil?
Re:Norway is wealthy because of oil. Can it give up fossil f... by dundarious on Saturday September 18, 2021 @12:35PM (#28577445)
The Jakarta Method came to Brazil to install a military dictatorship, then after that ended, didn’t they have good growth under Lula and more questionably under Dilma?
Re:Norway is wealthy because of oil. Can it give up fossil f... by dcgudeman on Saturday September 18, 2021 @12:37PM (#28577457)
The U.S. did not "install" Saddam Hussein lol.