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Re:Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US? by apendleton on Tuesday September 14, 2021 @05:57PM (#28531974)
> If the R Naught is more than 1 then you don't get any benefit to vaccinating a population that isn't vulnerable.

That's not how R values work at all. Firstly, an R value of 1.5 and an R value of 5 have wildly different outcomes in terms of controlling spread, and vaccines that can reduce R values can reduce spread even if the R value remains above 1. More to the point, though, "transmission is happening in vaccinated people" doesn't imply that the R value is above 1, and it doesn't look like you've provided any evidence that that's the case, nor does the fact that infections sometimes occur, in and of itself, suggest it.

Re:Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US? by swader999 on Tuesday September 14, 2021 @06:09PM (#28532134)
Look at Gibraltar's daily spike well after they acheived 99% full vaccination status on June 1. https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/gibraltar/...

Only lockdowns brought it back down which creates other problems around immune health in the population. (see NZ for example, RSV is clogging up the hospitals now with young kids who had degraded their immune systems the last year or so with all the hardcore lockdowns there)

Re:Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US? by apendleton on Tuesday September 14, 2021 @06:19PM (#28532257)
That suggests that lockdowns and vaccination together work better than vaccination alone, which is not particularly surprising. It seems, though, like you're suggesting that that means the vaccinations did nothing, which doesn't follow. It might well be that the case counts would have been twice as high if nobody had been vaccinated (or, who knows, ten times), and maybe some percentage of those additionally infected people would have died, or suffered long-term health outcomes. There's no way to know what the appropriate counterfactual is from this data alone.
Re:Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US? by scythe on Tuesday September 14, 2021 @07:16PM (#28532815)
Gibraltar isn't an island in the middle of the ocean. It's a tiny peninsula attached to the Spanish city of La Linea de la Concepcion. Many Gibraltarians interact with Spaniards on a daily basis. And indeed, the spike in Gibraltar cases coincides exactly with a much larger spike in cases in Spain:

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/spain

Re:Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US? by swader999 on Tuesday September 14, 2021 @11:57PM (#28535099)
Fair point but the fact remains that transmission is occurring between vaccinated persons. Nobody is disputing this. Israel is one of the higher vaccinated populations and they're at R1.1 as of today.