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Re:Social Networks: It's worse than you think (2020) by mdp2021 on Sunday September 12, 2021 @03:07AM (#28499209)
> no amount of moderating

There can be automated systems to fix that - to rank contributions, with the aim to boost the signal and reduce the noise, with the final aim to facilitate a lean and productive debate and information sharing; and also to connect contributions, to reduce dispersion, etc.

Such systems to rank contributions are related to the theory of voting systems (quantitative ranking of voters and options).

The aim of many big "social networks" is not «to facilitate a lean and productive debate and information sharing».

Re:Social Networks: It's worse than you think (2020) by pathseeker on Sunday September 12, 2021 @03:27AM (#28499269)
Those are based on the assumption that votes are equal. There are a lot of people I just don't have any interest in hearing from.

No automated system is going to fix eternal September style problems. And before you suggest that I could simply follow the groups I'm interested in, that's still not the same thing because the people in those groups will still be engaging with/distracted by the people I'm not following.

Re:Social Networks: It's worse than you think (2020) by lonk11 on Sunday September 12, 2021 @11:40AM (#28502135)
How about this way to automatically address the Eternal September problem:

When you upvote an item - you connect stronger to people who upvoted that same item.

When you downvote an item - you connection to those who upvoted it becomes weaker.

The content is ranked based on how strongly you are connected to people you upvoted each item.

That way when a lot of clueless/uninformed people come in and start upvoting useless to you content - they don't create noise in your personalized content list.

The content you see comes from people who have proven to find useful content for you.

This is how my hobby project https://linklonk.com works.

I did a Show HN a week ago and that post has more details: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28405659

Re:Social Networks: It's worse than you think (2020) by mattowen_uk on Sunday September 12, 2021 @01:50PM (#28503233)
On the surface this seems reasonable, but in reality I think the users would end up inside echo chambers very quickly.
Re:Social Networks: It's worse than you think (2020) by lonk11 on Sunday September 12, 2021 @08:23PM (#28506507)
Yes, an echo chamber is a concern. But unlike other systems, you are in total control of who you get your content from. You are responsible for what you see. Which I think is the best place to have this responsibility. This does not work for everyone (e.g., kids don't know what is better for them), but hopefully many people will find it useful.
Re:Social Networks: It's worse than you think (2020) by mdp2021 on Sunday September 12, 2021 @02:10PM (#28503403)
> Those are based on the assumption that votes are equal

No, absolutely not. Voters can be categorized, clusterized and ranked, already as part of voting systems theory (one single example in the latter: election of electors), and more beyond it.

> No automated system is going to fix eternal September style problems

And why not. One example: views filtering contribution by score.

> people in those groups will still be engaging with/distracted by

Not necessarily, if they are given the option to avoid that.

Re:Social Networks: It's worse than you think (2020) by mrweasel on Sunday September 12, 2021 @05:46AM (#28499795)
Moderation is something I've been think about lately. So fare the best idea I've come up with is "hide all posts by default", then randomly show a post or comment to something like 5 - 20% for the other users. Only when a post then reaches some level of likes/upvotes/whatever will that post open up to comments and be visible to all other users of the platform. If it fails to reach the required number of votes in 24 hours is will just be deleted.

Most social media platforms are simply to big to moderate in any meaningful way, in my opinion. AI has so far show to be ineffective, as show by comments and open letters from Facebooks human moderation staff.

Re:Social Networks: It's worse than you think (2020) by tcmart14 on Sunday September 12, 2021 @03:27AM (#28499266)
It could be automated, but would we want it to be? I don't get to see twitter's or facebook's back-end, but my guess is there is probably already a large sum of automation. Which leads to some of the very things people are complaining about. Right now, I don't see a path forward for automating moderating, meanwhile appeasing everyone. So, I think we would just see the same criticisms of HN emerge that are already present on the mainstream social networking platforms. People would just figure out a way with bots to sway the voting to suppress a voice or lift a voice artificially (something that is probably already done on twitter with people in both directions across all spectrum of opinions).

I could be wrong, I hope I am wrong.

Re:Social Networks: It's worse than you think (2020) by mdp2021 on Sunday September 12, 2021 @02:25PM (#28503524)
> would we want it to be?

Do we want to live in a sophisticated democracy as opposed to a naïve democracy? Some would.

Would you like to be part of an information exchange and debate platform using sophisticated systems as opposed to an open billboard? Some would.

It is very doable. It was done in history and it can be done technically in many ways.

Take for example HN: before you can downvote, you must have consolidated your position as contributor. Very simple - yet affecting the result, the "experience". Much more sophisticated techniques can be used.

Malicious parties could attack a system exploiting its weaknesses: yes, this is why take precautions like testing systems theoretically and practically, and implement defence systems.

> automating moderating

The point is not to automate moderation - it is not about the work of DanG. It is about reducing the noise generated by users "in development" and boosting the signal donated by "developed" users.

In the area of "ranking according to the favouring of favoured users, recursively" is a way to implement it.

Re:Social Networks: It's worse than you think (2020) by tcmart14 on Monday September 13, 2021 @03:06AM (#28508630)
Interesting, I did not know that one had to be a 'developed' user to be able to down vote. I may have to look more into the history of this and see some examples of implementations. Thanks for the info!
Re:Social Networks: It's worse than you think (2020) by burnished on Monday September 13, 2021 @08:37AM (#28510699)
It happens at 500 karma, and even then there are times you can't I think, such as direct responses to you.