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Re:ByteDance in talks with banks to borrow over $3B by buryat on Wednesday September 08, 2021 @09:25AM (#28456608)
TikTok is ruining kids brains same way as rock’n’roll did in 50s, MTV did in 90s, and video games did in 2000s
Re:ByteDance in talks with banks to borrow over $3B by jdavis703 on Wednesday September 08, 2021 @09:31AM (#28456675)
I don’t believe rock & roll, music videos or violent video games rot children’s brains (those were moral panics). But the current generation of social media and certain kinds of video game designs are absolutely designed to be addictive. I don’t think culture war stuff is comparable to people engineering software for dopamine hits.
Re:ByteDance in talks with banks to borrow over $3B by pjc50 on Wednesday September 08, 2021 @09:32AM (#28456684)
> I don’t think culture war stuff is comparable to people engineering software for dopamine hits.

It should be noted that most culture war stuff is itself engineered for an emotional "hit", although usually an angry one.

Re:ByteDance in talks with banks to borrow over $3B by JohnJamesRambo on Wednesday September 08, 2021 @09:36AM (#28456734)
At least a music video or song is three minutes long. That’s an eternity to a Tik Tok brain and they will become uncomfortable having to concentrate that long.
Re:ByteDance in talks with banks to borrow over $3B by samhw on Wednesday September 08, 2021 @10:02AM (#28457141)
Rule #382: You can translate 'kids these days' commentary from one generation to the next by simply substituting $newthing for $oldthing, and inserting a new value of $newthing. For instance:

1990s: Kids these days wouldn't have the attention span to {read a book}. All they can do is {watch music videos}.

2020s: Kids these days wouldn't have the attention span to {watch a music video}. All they can do is {browse TikTok}.

Re:ByteDance in talks with banks to borrow over $3B by ImprobableTruth on Wednesday September 08, 2021 @10:50AM (#28457883)
Ya know, this would be a lot more comforting if the attention span required for each new medium wasn't lower and lower...
Re:ByteDance in talks with banks to borrow over $3B by JohnJamesRambo on Wednesday September 08, 2021 @10:36AM (#28457663)
But what you said happened and is happening.

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2687861

Re:ByteDance in talks with banks to borrow over $3B by namaria on Friday September 10, 2021 @04:57AM (#28479191)
You see how you just highlighted a worsening trend right?
Re:ByteDance in talks with banks to borrow over $3B by dntrkv on Wednesday September 08, 2021 @11:19AM (#28458388)
Most video games are created to be addictive.

On the extreme end, you got the Civ series. It's been around for 30 years now. There is literally a joke website called Civ Anonymous. "One More Turn"

FPS games like CS really feed that dopamine hit when you get a kill, especially a head shot. You think the game designers aren't thinking about how to make that kill as satisfying as possible?

Even the games of the 90s were engineered to be addictive. Tetris when you clear the blocks. Mario when you get a power up. Even Solitaire when you win the game and the cards go flying.

Re:ByteDance in talks with banks to borrow over $3B by Bayart on Wednesday September 08, 2021 @09:28AM (#28456642)
It's not because those are things we have positive emotional associations with from of our childhood that they're actually positive things. I for one would have rather never played video games or watched MTV.

You remember those old farts, annoying everybody with their sanctimonious imprecations about video games ? They were right.

Re:ByteDance in talks with banks to borrow over $3B by FredPret on Wednesday September 08, 2021 @09:33AM (#28456702)
I'm with you 100% on this one. I wish I never picked up that first game when I was 6.

I wasted so much time especially in my 20's racking up idiotic "achievements" that exist only in a Factorio savegame and other similarly irrelevant places.

Re:ByteDance in talks with banks to borrow over $3B by Ekaros on Wednesday September 08, 2021 @12:38PM (#28459546)
All of those useless read books. Thankfully I'm amusical so atleast I haven't wasted my life on that crap...
Re:ByteDance in talks with banks to borrow over $3B by Grustaf on Wednesday September 08, 2021 @11:14AM (#28458306)
Maybe you can make an NFT of them...
Re:ByteDance in talks with banks to borrow over $3B by Grustaf on Wednesday September 08, 2021 @11:20AM (#28458402)
I completely agree with your sentiment, but it's important to be aware of the real problem.

Most people, opponents and supporters of video games alike, tend to discuss if the activity itself is harmful - does it make us desensitised to violence etc, but the real issue is what you are NOT doing when you play those games.

If a child doesn't have easy access to cheap thrills from a video game, she will start using her imagination, draw something, go to a friend, come up with some mischief.

Time is limited, and childhood is the most precious thing in the world, don't waste it.

Re:ByteDance in talks with banks to borrow over $3B by Gene_Parmesan on Wednesday September 08, 2021 @01:14PM (#28460115)
Nah, not really. Video games have been shown to be very good at increasing problem solving, planning, and fine motor skills. The problem is parents (including mine) who didn't/don't put reasonable limits on their use. A kid who plays video games a couple hours per week is going to turn out just fine.

I think there are also serious qualitative differences between games in the 90s/00s and mobile freemium games of today.

Re:ByteDance in talks with banks to borrow over $3B by FredPret on Wednesday September 08, 2021 @01:49PM (#28460617)
Practicing problem solving skills in the simplified and consequence-free video game world is very useful at a very young age. But young minds must switch over to solving problems in the far richer and more complicated real world as soon as possible.
Re:ByteDance in talks with banks to borrow over $3B by pjc50 on Wednesday September 08, 2021 @09:31AM (#28456676)
> I for one would have rather never played video games or watched MTV.

This is rather sad; would you rather have been prevented from them? What would you prefer to have been made to do?

Re:ByteDance in talks with banks to borrow over $3B by Bayart on Wednesday September 08, 2021 @09:58AM (#28457064)
Go out, socialize with other kids, experience a broader variety of things, grow up. I'm now absolutely certain my using video games as an excuse to stay inside as a teenager and young adult severely delayed my emotional and social growth. I was always a rather solitary kid but there was no merit in reinforcing those habits.
Re:ByteDance in talks with banks to borrow over $3B by Grustaf on Wednesday September 08, 2021 @11:13AM (#28458271)
Few things are as useless as watching TV and playing video games. Especially when you're young, the world is your oyster, you should hang out with friends and do things in the real world.

Yes, playing video games occasionally with friends or watching the odd film can be good things but that's obviously not what we're talking about here.

I'm very happy most of my childhood memories revolve around tree houses, bicycles and gangs of friends roaming the streets.

Re:ByteDance in talks with banks to borrow over $3B by FredPret on Wednesday September 08, 2021 @01:51PM (#28460646)
Spot on. I wish I “played” in my 20’s by starting side businesses in real life rather than ones that only exist on a tiny piece of silicon.
Re:ByteDance in talks with banks to borrow over $3B by blocked_again on Wednesday September 08, 2021 @09:48AM (#28456898)
Do kids used to watch MTV for hours daily in 90s?

Do they used to watch MTV in School?

Do they used to watch MTV while waiting for bus?

Was their classmates all making videos for MTV?

Re:ByteDance in talks with banks to borrow over $3B by throwaway34241 on Wednesday September 08, 2021 @10:32AM (#28457607)
> Do kids used to watch MTV for hours daily in 90s?

Not MTV exclusively, but yes I knew kids (in elementary school!) that watched TV for hours every day (although I didn’t grow up with that habit).

Pretty sure the same hours-a-day thing was true for video games as well, although in my view at least that’s not totally passive and was sometimes social (kids playing against each other in person).

Re:ByteDance in talks with banks to borrow over $3B by blocked_again on Wednesday September 08, 2021 @11:05AM (#28458149)
> Not MTV exclusively, but yes I knew kids (in elementary school!)

Which I suppose was a small minority. Defintely not the case with TikTok.

Re:ByteDance in talks with banks to borrow over $3B by throwaway34241 on Wednesday September 08, 2021 @12:32PM (#28459474)
The the statistic that was bandied about at the time was 5hrs of TV a day on average, across all Americans. I don’t have a number for kids but of course they had more free time than working adults.

That seems to fit with this recent data [1], which shows the average as still high but lower in the younger demographic. It has the 65+ group as 7+ hrs/day on average, which seems mildly horrifying considering half of people are likely above that. But perhaps not surprising - especially with the obesity rates being what they are, many people may not be very mobile at that age.

[1] https://www.statista.com/chart/15224/daily-tv-consumption-by...

Re:ByteDance in talks with banks to borrow over $3B by onlyrealcuzzo on Wednesday September 08, 2021 @11:25AM (#28458478)
Sure - in the same way Fentanyl is essentially Aspirin.