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Re:Germany wants smartphone makers to offer 7 years of softw... by tgsovlerkhgsel on Monday September 06, 2021 @04:05PM (#28437460)
Android 5.0 is considered as the first version fully supporting TLS 1.2 according to https://support.globalsign.com/ssl/general-ssl/tls-protocol-.... It was released end of 2014, so nearing 7 years.

Wikipedia indeed no longer supports TLS 1.1, i.e. if the phone didn't receive any updates beyond security updates, it'd be broken.

This seems to have happened around 2019: https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T238038

I'm honestly surprised, I expected the overlap between "everything new supports this" and "actually turned off" to be bigger.

So realistically, after 5 years without updates, the phone would be a brick. That's still 3 more useful years for people who care about security, and perhaps more importantly, 3 years where people who don't know about the importance of security updates or can't afford to care remain secure. This also assumes no non-security updates at all.

Re:Germany wants smartphone makers to offer 7 years of softw... by strenholme on Monday September 06, 2021 @05:20PM (#28438231)
the phone would be a brick

Well, to be fair here, the phone would still be able to make phone calls and send/receive texts, so it would hardly be a brick.

As a practical matter, stuff like supporting a newer version of TLS is at the application, not the OS level, so the user would just have to get an update with their browser to be able to use newer TLS. [1] Supporting newer TLS, for a browser, is little more than recompiling the browser; even stuff like Lynx and newer builds of Dillo have current TLS support.

[1] Windows XP stopped being updated by Microsoft in 2014 [2] but Firefox up until 52.9.0 (2018) runs in Windows XP.

[2] The post-2014 point of sale updates were quite limited in scope, and can not be seen as general OS updates

Re:Germany wants smartphone makers to offer 7 years of softw... by tgsovlerkhgsel on Tuesday September 07, 2021 @02:13PM (#28447952)
True, the brick was an exaggeration. I thought about the "applications bundling SSL libraries", but especially on a phone, I expect enough things to break to result in a user experience that most would not be willing to accept.
Re:Germany wants smartphone makers to offer 7 years of softw... by strenholme on Wednesday September 08, 2021 @01:57AM (#28453568)
For me, if my phone still made phone calls, still sent texts, still got critical security updates, but I were forced to get Firefox from the app store to browse the modern TLS 1.2 web, I would consider it still quite usable.

For the average user who doesn’t know about security, having their phone updated w.r.t. security but having the phone’s built in browser break because it doesn’t work with modern TLS websites would be much better than having them have their phone compromised and critical information given to hackers. They would be able to get a new phone (or download another browser) if they want a modern browser with modern TLS; that’s a very different rodeo than the current situation of “update your phone or have security problems” with phones not even five years old.

Re:Germany wants smartphone makers to offer 7 years of softw... by fulafel on Tuesday September 07, 2021 @12:02AM (#28440803)
Browsers don't have to use the base os TLS libs.
Re:Germany wants smartphone makers to offer 7 years of softw... by Fradow on Wednesday September 08, 2021 @07:49AM (#28455713)
In fact, Chrome does use its own TLS libs and don't have any trouble connecting on TLS 1.2 on Android 4.4.

On the other hand, nearly every application use the base OS TLS libs and cannot connect anymore to servers that disabled TLS 1.0/1.1 on Android 4.4.

Re:Germany wants smartphone makers to offer 7 years of softw... by fulafel on Thursday September 09, 2021 @12:54AM (#28466371)
Yep. But this is probably a good thing, since those out of date libs are likely to be vulnerable from today's POV.

To engineer the app work remotely safely on such vendor-abandoned devices you need to basically assume you're running on a malware or rootkit compromised device, and just hope that by using your self bundled components you'll have better chances to survive in the core wars game because your app is not being specifically targeted.

Re:Germany wants smartphone makers to offer 7 years of softw... by tgsovlerkhgsel on Tuesday September 07, 2021 @02:13PM (#28447935)
True, but I expect enough things to break that no non-desperate person would want to use that.