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Re:An Epidemic of Wage Theft Is Costing Workers Hundreds of ... by dataflow on Saturday September 04, 2021 @03:39PM (#28418367)
> Maybe I should try that next time I'm in a restaurant.

Perhaps ironically, people frequently place orders at restaurant and then decline to come to pick them up & pay. They restaurant still ends up providing the service they promise, and the customer declines to make the payment they promise.

It's terrible, but my understanding is it's similarly quite commonplace and hardly ever prosecuted.

Re:An Epidemic of Wage Theft Is Costing Workers Hundreds of ... by thombat on Saturday September 04, 2021 @03:55PM (#28418493)
Not quite the same, since McDonalds actually enjoyed the benefit of the labor without paying. So it's as if the customers sat down and ate the meal, then declined to pay. If the cops get called the consequence is probably worse than merely having to pay what was already agreed.
Re:An Epidemic of Wage Theft Is Costing Workers Hundreds of ... by dataflow on Saturday September 04, 2021 @03:59PM (#28418541)
Neither is a perfect analogy, but note that in your example the customer is actually depriving the restaurant of their possession of some goods without payment, i.e. it's theft. The example here is about services being rendered.
Re:An Epidemic of Wage Theft Is Costing Workers Hundreds of ... by verall on Saturday September 04, 2021 @04:31PM (#28418836)
Are you saying that labor being deprived of their, uh, labor, is not comparable to businesses being deprived of their goods?
Re:An Epidemic of Wage Theft Is Costing Workers Hundreds of ... by dataflow on Saturday September 04, 2021 @04:38PM (#28418903)
I'm saying that legally speaking (not morally speaking), being deprived of intangible things (aka services, think "verbs") is somewhat different from being deprived of tangible things (aka goods, think "nouns"). Neither entirely different (obviously), nor entirely identical (obviously). They're not treated the same way in general and I don't think you'd want to treat them identically for legal purposes.
Re:An Epidemic of Wage Theft Is Costing Workers Hundreds of ... by Retric on Saturday September 04, 2021 @04:31PM (#28418829)
Restaurants regularly resell goods in cases like this. I’ve had it happen when I was 10 minutes late.

Worst case they can give it to workers at the end of the shift.

Re:An Epidemic of Wage Theft Is Costing Workers Hundreds of ... by dataflow on Saturday September 04, 2021 @04:33PM (#28418855)
I wish they did that more! I haven't seen it happen much personally but I'm glad you've seen it a lot. I know not long ago I went to a restaurant where I saw meals had been waiting for pickup for several hours... right before they were closing. Probably easier for small businesses than chains/franchises I'm guessing.
Re:An Epidemic of Wage Theft Is Costing Workers Hundreds of ... by ipaddr on Saturday September 04, 2021 @04:07PM (#28418599)
Because it is not a crime.

You can order whatever you want unless a payment is made and product accepted a legal transaction hasn't occured. Missed items, uncooked food, poor quality are common reasons not to accept and send back. You can decide to decline the transaction at any point.

What businesses do is make the person pay first. Rarely does a fastfood worker take my order.. stop.. makes my food and then asks me to pay. They take my money serve the next person, I wait to get called.

A drive through is different and they get very low rates of drivers ordering only to drive away.

Businesses have found a way to deal with this issue.

Re:An Epidemic of Wage Theft Is Costing Workers Hundreds of ... by SiVal on Saturday September 04, 2021 @06:17PM (#28419871)
"You can order whatever you want unless a payment is made and product accepted a legal transaction hasn't occured."

It may or may not be a crime depending on intent, but a transaction is not the issue. It is breach of contract. Laws obviously vary around the world, but the US Uniform Commercial Code is probably typical. The restaurant has made an offer. The customer has accepted it. There is agreed-to "consideration" (value) to be provided by both sides. If the restaurant does what they said they would do you, having accepted the "offer" by making an order, are bound to do what you said you would do (pay the price that you knew was the price when you accepted the offer.)

Just increase the dollar amounts by a large enough factor, and you'll see it. A company sells widgets. I order a million dollars worth, items that can't simply be put back in stock and resold to others. They make them, but I don't pick them up. I'm not arguing that they didn't do their part by making defective items. I'm (probably) not required to pick them up, but I am required to pay what I agreed. You are saying "no transaction occurred", but that's not at issue. The company will (rightly) sue me for breach of contract.

It's the same for fast food except that the static friction of legal costs vastly overpowers the scale of recovery from the breach of contract for each instance of no-show. But if a single order for $10,000 (catering a company picnic) is not picked up, you get past the friction, and the restaurant will sue for breach of contract.

Re:An Epidemic of Wage Theft Is Costing Workers Hundreds of ... by ipaddr on Saturday September 04, 2021 @09:24PM (#28420919)
Big orders require pre-payment. If no stock is available the customer should expect a wait. Even a pizza shop will require a credit card for 20 pizzas.

If someone is selling 1 million dollars worth of widgets and the buyer is unknown prepayment is required. If known and a valid purchase order is signed the customer usually has net30/60 to pay if they don't there might be a lawsuit or a black mark on their credit file with collectors calling.

Does it ever make sense to pay hundreds to win that 2 dollars back? Your employees waste more when meals don't turn out perfect. The cost of food to the restaurant includes the wasted food (usually from employee mistakes) and those are reflected in the prices.

Re:An Epidemic of Wage Theft Is Costing Workers Hundreds of ... by SiVal on Sunday September 05, 2021 @01:20AM (#28421828)
"Big orders require pre-payment." That's neither criminal (ex: fraud) nor civil (contract) law. That's just one of countless things a party may or may not choose to do as personal/corporate policy. I might ask for a downpayment, or a full prepayment or a credit card or collateral or just trust you or whatever. It's irrelevant to the question of criminal culpability or civil liability. Unfortunately, you can be at risk even when you are in the right because of practical aspects of recovery such as legal costs, unpredictability of court outcomes, ability of the other party to pay even if they lose in court, etc. So there are extra-legal (not illegal, just private policy) methods of reducing the risk.

Whether you choose to avail yourself of such policies or not (including even getting the contract in writing) has no relevance to the legal question of whether a contract was breached.

Re:An Epidemic of Wage Theft Is Costing Workers Hundreds of ... by MikeTheGreat on Saturday September 04, 2021 @11:36PM (#28421448)
"A drive through is different and they get very low rates of drivers ordering only to drive away."

I hadn't realized this until I read your post, but most (not all, but most) drive-throughs that I've been to recently seem to be engineered to prevent people from ordering and then driving away.

"Engineered" like civil engineering, not social engineering. They feature a single lane with curbs on either side, typically near the edge of the property (so frequently near a fence or wall, etc).

I suppose the person could order, pull through, and then drive past the payment window and keep going, but other than that it's definitely not easy to leave that single, bounded lane once you're in it.

Re:An Epidemic of Wage Theft Is Costing Workers Hundreds of ... by dataflow on Saturday September 04, 2021 @04:18PM (#28418706)
All the examples you mention are those where the customer actually intended to pay if the meal is properly cooked, and thus would have if there were no issues. Not ones where they place an order intending not to make the payment they promise to. Are you sure that isn't a crime? It sounds like fraud to me (or some other crime) but I'm not a lawyer.

The problem is likely that distinguishing these for prosecution/conviction, but that's probably a similarity with wage theft, not a dissimilarity.