Rejected internal job applicants are twice as likely to quit

Re:Rejected internal job applicants are twice as likely to quit by plutonorm on Friday September 03, 2021 @02:42PM (#28407802)

This is very very hard to do if you want to go from software engineer to manager. Almost impossible - I have tried sending out hundreds of resumes over periods of years. You need to be promoted internally - but that is impossible unless you know someone. The internal job postings are a sham. I absolutely HATE software development but have been stuck in this role for 15 years and 5 years since I genuinely started loathing it. But there is no escape unless I want to go work in Tescos. I've not seen a promotion into management in my 15 years in the industry across 7 different companies. For all intents and purposes it does not happen and if you go into software, you aren't getting out.

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Re:Rejected internal job applicants are twice as likely to quit by tomtheelder on Friday September 03, 2021 @03:09PM (#28408089)

Are you working at a large org? If you want internal mobility, particularly for IC -> manager in software eng, I would highly recommend moving to a startup. My experience at startups has generally been that the company can't convince enough of the engineers to move into management so the transition is extremely easy for those who are willing.

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Re:Rejected internal job applicants are twice as likely to quit by spfzero on Friday September 03, 2021 @08:33PM (#28411021)

Or even just a smaller company that is not a start-up. In my experience, smaller companies are always looking for a way to become larger companies, and at their size, a single hire can make a significant difference. In fact I'd say the odds are better than in a start-up, because a start-up often has tons of cash to burn up along the way of learning which people could be additive.

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Re:Rejected internal job applicants are twice as likely to quit by hinoki on Friday September 03, 2021 @09:17PM (#28411231)

Even large orgs can be like this, as long as they (the whole company, or more likely just the small part you work for) are growing. It’s usually much harder to hire managers. Just go anywhere that’s growing, prove you’re a competent tech lead by organising/coordinating your IC work, and you’ll get the manager twisting your arm to become a lead.

Ask how many reports the hiring manager has, and how many it was a year ago. If it was 10 and now it’s 20, that hiring manager is probably desperate to hire a lead to take care of some of the people managing.

I’ve seen this at Facebook and Google, so it’s not just small companies.

With startups, it’s much easier to determine if the team hiring is growing, because the answer is yes.

Edit: typos

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Re:Rejected internal job applicants are twice as likely to quit by pedrosorio on Friday September 03, 2021 @02:53PM (#28407919)

Is this a UK thing? I think I’ve read this before on HN, “getting promoted from software engineer to manager is hard”.

It seems to be a cultural thing. In the US, the manager is not seen as “superior” necessarily and many people actively do not want to be promoted (and a bunch of kids pouring into the field every year) so getting a management position is not particularly hard, even if you’re under 30.

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Re:Rejected internal job applicants are twice as likely to quit by gambiting on Friday September 03, 2021 @06:37PM (#28410210)

I'm in the UK and at you wouldn't have any issue where I work(big AAA games publisher) - very very very few people want to be managers, so if someone expressed interest in managing they'd be given all training and support to make that happen, probably would get them promoted within a year or less. In fact I'd say that with some seniority under your belt you have to start actively avoiding management roles if you don't want them.

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Re:Rejected internal job applicants are twice as likely to quit by plutonorm on Saturday September 04, 2021 @12:45PM (#28416620)

I don't believe it - have you seen it happen? If someone actually tries to follow that path, they get managed out rather than promoted, I bet you.

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Re:Rejected internal job applicants are twice as likely to quit by gambiting on Sunday September 05, 2021 @09:12AM (#28424090)

>>I don't believe it - have you seen it happen

Yes, I have gone exactly through this myself, and now that I'm a manager I've helped several people become managers themselves, and it always starts with people expressing interest in the path. It's generally very encouraged where I work.

>>get managed out rather than promoted, I bet you.

That's a pretty wild bet to make, given that you know, I'm actually talking from experience.

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Re:Rejected internal job applicants are twice as likely to quit by thinkharderdev on Friday September 03, 2021 @03:03PM (#28408022)

Maybe it's a cultural thing but my experience has been the exact opposite. As a software engineer you have to actively avoid taking a management position after a few years at any given company.

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Re:Rejected internal job applicants are twice as likely to quit by jnwatson on Friday September 03, 2021 @03:28PM (#28408320)

Exactly. I’ve been dodging management positions for the last 21 of 23 years. I’ve had to leave two companies to do so.

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Re:Rejected internal job applicants are twice as likely to quit by zz865 on Friday September 03, 2021 @04:42PM (#28409171)

I agree its true but its easy to change your resume to make your current job a lite manager. Put the title in and list all the responsible stuff you've done. With a bit of exaggeration you've been some kind of middle manager the last 5 years I'm sure.

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Re:Rejected internal job applicants are twice as likely to quit by e4325f on Friday September 03, 2021 @04:52PM (#28409285)

7 companies in 15 years is a lot of moving around, maybe this has something to do with it?

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Re:Rejected internal job applicants are twice as likely to quit by plutonorm on Saturday September 04, 2021 @12:43PM (#28416602)

I went contracting after the last permanent position turned out to be another dead end. Now I've given up and just work enough to pay the bills so I can avoid programming as much as possible.

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Re:Rejected internal job applicants are twice as likely to quit by mixmastamyk on Friday September 03, 2021 @06:39PM (#28410234)

Yeah, you don't go straight to director. Absolutely not externally for that matter.

First, you start out with "team lead" then work your way up after showing enthusiasm and reliability. Get the Fournier book, The Manager's Path.

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