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Re:Supply Chain Shortages Continue Around the World. Get Use... by toomuchtodo on Thursday September 02, 2021 @07:47PM (#28398795)
Yes, but you must use regulation to require a resilient supply chain, as it’s cheaper not to build it to be resilient. Capital optimizes for capital, people must optimize for people.
Re:Supply Chain Shortages Continue Around the World. Get Use... by R0b0t1 on Thursday September 02, 2021 @07:56PM (#28398866)
Well, no. A lot of businesses would store spare parts save the fact they are taxed quite heavily in some jurisdictions.

My experience with lean/JIT in the manufacturing space shows when it is actually done at every level your business starts hemorrhaging money waiting for parts to arrive. Each step of the process unless perfectly foretold adds 1-3 weeks in a good quarter. It is actually the local preference that we keep more spares than we do, but accounting says no.

If you read the fine print with how Toyota implemented lean you find out that they made their partners contractually obligated to keep inventory, not themselves. Inventory was still kept but who paid the tax bill and who paid upkeep changed.

Re:Supply Chain Shortages Continue Around the World. Get Use... by Optimal_Persona on Thursday September 02, 2021 @08:43PM (#28399228)
Agreed, I worked in food manufacturing for a while, and was fortunate to have suppliers who maintained 1-2 shifts worth of almost all obscure components as a good-faith gesture. As most of our own backstock was perishable, FIFO rotation kept us from having way too much, or any tax issues.

I learned it was much better to deal with CEO/investors grumbling about $$$ tied up in backstock than Type A Sales Manager + CEO/investors wondering when the f^ck a single critical component would let us restart the production line to launch an overdue product. I don't miss that job! There was also the "Google the new CEO on his first day and find out he's under SEC investigation for withholding payments to his previous corp's suppliers to pad the balance sheet for buyout" but that is another story entirely!

Re:Supply Chain Shortages Continue Around the World. Get Use... by magicalhippo on Friday September 03, 2021 @08:00AM (#28403026)
A lot of our customers, especially those with internet shops, are moving to bonded warehouses where they can keep the goods without paying import taxes until they need the part or made the sale. Then they do an import declaration on just what they need/sold.

This way they don't have to cash out for whole containers at a time. Sure they'll have to pay for more declarations, but overall it's usually worth it, especially if the goods can sit there for a year or more.

Our customs systems here is totally not made for this new world though.

Re:Supply Chain Shortages Continue Around the World. Get Use... by dv_dt on Thursday September 02, 2021 @11:33PM (#28400124)
So don’t form the regulation that way… it could be as simple as allowing a write off for a small percentage of buffer inventory.
Re:Supply Chain Shortages Continue Around the World. Get Use... by simonh on Friday September 03, 2021 @04:47AM (#28401838)
That sounds pretty easily gameable, and how do you calculate an appropriate percentage that applies to many different businesses and industries? This sort of regulatory micro-managing is generally a really bad idea unless the regulator works very closely with the business. But that means greatly increased costs of implementing the regulations.
Re:Supply Chain Shortages Continue Around the World. Get Use... by nickff on Thursday September 02, 2021 @08:24PM (#28399089)
If you want companies to hold more inventory (complete or not), a good first move would be to stop taxing them for it. After doing that, we could look at whether additional regulatory measures were required.

If you want them to in-house more production, allow all of them to write-off 100% of capital equipment purchases in the first year.

Re:Supply Chain Shortages Continue Around the World. Get Use... by jxramos on Thursday September 02, 2021 @08:57PM (#28399300)
curious, who's taxing for inventory?
Re:Supply Chain Shortages Continue Around the World. Get Use... by R0b0t1 on Thursday September 02, 2021 @09:16PM (#28399426)
It's property so basically everyone
Re:Supply Chain Shortages Continue Around the World. Get Use... by jxramos on Thursday September 02, 2021 @09:33PM (#28399515)
so just property tax then, like an empty warehouse holds the same tax burden as one filled to capacity with inventory? I thought someone was suggesting more than property tax.
Re:Supply Chain Shortages Continue Around the World. Get Use... by nickff on Thursday September 02, 2021 @11:19PM (#28400042)
Corporations are taxed on assets that they accrue (increases in total holdings are taxed as 'profit'). This applies to inventories, capital assets, and real estate.

This taxation is why corporations often prefer to lease rather than own, and why they often pay out dividends rather than using the money to collect assets.

Re:Supply Chain Shortages Continue Around the World. Get Use... by jxramos on Friday September 03, 2021 @12:20AM (#28400381)
wow, I never knew that. I always perceived inventories as risks companies took assuming they'd be able to sell it all or at the least would be able to liquidate it at cost if it came to it. Sounds like the books are already negative just taking on inventory from the get go above production and shipping and whatever else.
Re:Supply Chain Shortages Continue Around the World. Get Use... by nickff on Friday September 03, 2021 @01:12AM (#28400607)
If you sell the inventory at a loss, you can 'write off' the 'lost value', which reduces your profits on paper in that fiscal year (and the corresponding taxes), but you did already pay taxes on holding that inventory.

These taxes reduce the amount of money you can spend on capital equipment, inventories, and facilities, which reduces your maximum rate of growth.

All of these are the reasons that software businesses are so heavily advantaged by the tax code. They don't have to pay taxes on (much) capital equipment or inventories, and the smaller facilities are also beneficial from a tax perspective.

Re:Supply Chain Shortages Continue Around the World. Get Use... by OldTimeCoffee on Friday September 03, 2021 @07:16AM (#28402693)
>These taxes reduce the amount of money you can spend on capital equipment, inventories, and facilities, which reduces your maximum rate of growth.

I mean, yes, but not really. They're not a meaningful portion of their revenues. Typically it's around 1% of the acquisition cost of the item inclusive of any fees required to get it in your inventory. This is akin to complaining about paying BWC taxes which are about 1% of your payroll. If they're a real hardship to your business, your business has more problems than holding excess inventory.

Re:Supply Chain Shortages Continue Around the World. Get Use... by nickff on Friday September 03, 2021 @12:46PM (#28406516)
I’m not sure where you’re getting your “1%” from, but corporations are liable for full income tax (21% in the USA), on the (depreciated) increase in the value of their assets.
Re:Supply Chain Shortages Continue Around the World. Get Use... by OldTimeCoffee on Friday September 03, 2021 @06:10PM (#28409982)
The original start of this thread by jxramos was referring to how inventory was taxed. "curious, who's taxing for inventory?" You responded:

>Corporations are taxed on assets that they accrue (increases in total holdings are taxed as 'profit'). This applies to inventories, capital assets, and real estate.

and

>you did already pay taxes on holding that inventory.

Inventories are taxed as property which is, in general, about 1% of the cost (to the company) of the item.

You're conflating income and property taxes. What your describing in your previous posts is an income tax, which is the tax paid on the net income associated with an asset. However, you have to dispose of the asset to pay that tax. Until then the asset is property and it's only subject to property tax.

Normal accounting disclaimer applies. Definitely get an accountant and don't take accounting advice from the internet.

Re:Supply Chain Shortages Continue Around the World. Get Use... by nickff on Friday September 03, 2021 @06:48PM (#28410305)
>"Inventories are taxed as property which is, in general, about 1% of the cost (to the company) of the item."

Most jurisdictions don't have the asset taxes you're describing. Some do, in which case inventories cost extra to hold each and every year.

>"You're conflating income and property taxes. What your describing in your previous posts is an income tax, which is the tax paid on the net income associated with an asset. However, you have to dispose of the asset to pay that tax. Until then the asset is property and it's only subject to property tax."

No, when a company uses its revenues to buy stuff and hold onto it, the government counts the value of that stuff as profits, and taxes are paid on that 'income' in the fiscal year of acquisition. The assets are then gradually depreciated (with the depreciation treated as a loss). If the assets are sold off, income taxes are assessed against sales in excess of the depreciated value, and losses are assessed (along with corresponding write-offs) against sale values below the depreciated value of the asset.

>"Normal accounting disclaimer applies. Definitely get an accountant and don't take accounting advice from the internet. "

I completely agree with this, especially since tax law varies widely, even between Canada and the USA.

Re:Supply Chain Shortages Continue Around the World. Get Use... by OldTimeCoffee on Friday September 03, 2021 @07:39PM (#28410648)
>No, when a company uses its revenues to buy stuff and hold onto it, the government counts the value of that stuff as profits

This is not quite right, though it is mostly correct in describing depreciation. When you purchase a depreciating asset it has a book value that is depreciated over time. That book value is not counted as income and definitely not as net income (profits), though it will appear with other assets on the balance sheet. You've essentially converted one type of asset to another, there is no gain or loss there to tax.

For depreciating assets, the depreciation is deductible because it represents a loss in value of the asset. In general, this can be taken when the depreciation is realized. If you dispose of the asset you pay taxes based on the deprecated value, like you've described.

It's important to realize that corporate taxes are almost exclusively on net income, that being the money left over after the business has done all of it's financial activities.

Re:Supply Chain Shortages Continue Around the World. Get Use... by R0b0t1 on Thursday September 02, 2021 @09:35PM (#28399527)
What is in the warehouse is property also
Re:Supply Chain Shortages Continue Around the World. Get Use... by magila on Thursday September 02, 2021 @08:28PM (#28399123)
Please no. The last thing we need is another bunch of half-baked regulations passed because a bunch of people who don't know what they're talking about demanded "something must be done!" in response to some temporary crisis. COVID will subside eventually, dysfunctional regulations have much greater staying power.
Re:Supply Chain Shortages Continue Around the World. Get Use... by toomuchtodo on Thursday September 02, 2021 @08:30PM (#28399142)
The regulations are not for COVID. They are for future supply chain shocks. The executive branch has already begun to explore the problem (see citation below).

“The 100-day reports make clear: more secure and resilient supply chains are essential to our national security, our economic security, and our technological leadership. The work of strengthening America’s critical supply chains will require sustained focus and investment.”

https://www.whitehouse.gov/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/100-da...

Re:Supply Chain Shortages Continue Around the World. Get Use... by ryan93 on Thursday September 02, 2021 @09:45PM (#28399581)
No one is starving. Somethings are just temporarily more expensive.
Re:Supply Chain Shortages Continue Around the World. Get Use... by DangitBobby on Thursday September 02, 2021 @11:18PM (#28400040)
Things being temporarily more expensive is a real hardship for some people.
Re:Supply Chain Shortages Continue Around the World. Get Use... by fspeech on Friday September 03, 2021 @03:06AM (#28401222)
Demanding it not be so will make things permanently more expensive for everyone, not only in the monetary sense, but also in labor and material. Subsidize or ration if we must, but only temporarily and in response to a crisis.
Re:Supply Chain Shortages Continue Around the World. Get Use... by tablespoon on Friday September 03, 2021 @03:52AM (#28401518)
>> Yes, but you must use regulation to require a resilient supply chain, as it’s cheaper not to build it to be resilient. Capital optimizes for capital, people must optimize for people.

> Please no. The last thing we need is another bunch of half-baked regulations passed because a bunch of people who don't know what they're talking about demanded "something must be done!" in response to some temporary crisis. COVID will subside eventually, dysfunctional regulations have much greater staying power.

Pick your poison: either capital decides to build a sufficiently resilient supply chain or they get subjected to "half-baked regulations." They're not going to do the former, so say hello to the latter.

Do nothing and profiteer during the next crisis is not an option capital should be permitted to take.

Re:Supply Chain Shortages Continue Around the World. Get Use... by mcguire on Thursday September 02, 2021 @08:19PM (#28399044)
And a resilient electricity supply system, as Texas discovered.
Re:Supply Chain Shortages Continue Around the World. Get Use... by Mountain_Skies on Thursday September 02, 2021 @08:32PM (#28399162)
Can you explain this? Last year a tropic storm came through north Georgia and our power was out for twice as long as it was out in Texas but for some reason Texas is now the poster child for unreliable power delivery while unless you live in north Georgia, you're probably not even aware there was an extended outage last October. Are those of us in Georgia beneath your notice?
Re:Supply Chain Shortages Continue Around the World. Get Use... by toomuchtodo on Thursday September 02, 2021 @08:35PM (#28399185)
Texas’ power market is dysfunctional. It has no capacity market, so generators aren’t paid to have a certain amount of generation capacity available. It’s every generator for themselves. This is great during normal times, and drives down the cost of power. “Cheap energy is good!”, says Texas. During times of crisis, you end up with bankruptcies, enormous bills, and people going without power (and in extreme weather conditions, ending up dead, as happens in February in Texas) when they otherwise wouldn’t have to in a functioning electrical system where electrical generation capacity was firm and compensated.

ERCOT also didn’t know it was shedding natural gas compressor station circuits when performing rotating blackouts, causing a cascading failure when natural gas generators were starved of fuel. That’s just plain ol’ incompetence.

Re:Supply Chain Shortages Continue Around the World. Get Use... by mcguire on Thursday September 02, 2021 @09:05PM (#28399349)
Re:Supply Chain Shortages Continue Around the World. Get Use... by thaumasiotes on Friday September 03, 2021 @01:34AM (#28400736)
> ERCOT also didn’t know it was shedding natural gas compressor station circuits when performing rotating blackouts, causing a cascading failure when natural gas generators were starved of fuel. That’s just plain ol’ incompetence.

And despite all that incompetence, they were much better at maintaining the power supply than north Georgia. That would seem to imply that the system is even better than the performance gap would indicate.

Re:Supply Chain Shortages Continue Around the World. Get Use... by OneEyedRobot on Friday September 03, 2021 @09:40AM (#28404081)
I always assumed that Maine was the king of power outages.
Re:Supply Chain Shortages Continue Around the World. Get Use... by refurb on Thursday September 02, 2021 @08:19PM (#28399043)
So central planning? “Regulations state that all manufacturers must maintain 30 days inventory of critical supplies”.

That would just make things worse.

Re:Supply Chain Shortages Continue Around the World. Get Use... by imtringued on Friday September 03, 2021 @05:20AM (#28402031)
Nowadays even something as banal as collecting taxes is considered central planning... the word lost its meaning very quickly.

I don't know why people demand even more "free market" when governments spent 40 years giving more power to the private sector.

Re:Supply Chain Shortages Continue Around the World. Get Use... by VortexDream on Friday September 03, 2021 @04:27AM (#28401717)
I always wonder why Americans jump from one extreme to another. There are plenty of solutions in between free market and central planning, you know?
Re:Supply Chain Shortages Continue Around the World. Get Use... by refurb on Friday September 03, 2021 @07:06AM (#28402650)
Of course there is. But directing how much inventory a company has to hold seems a bit more invasive than say, demanding a company can't dump chemicals on the ground?