As for the first point, fine grained control for what goes into a commit, that's definitely a power user feature, but an important one of course. Again there are ways to achieve this without introducing new state (the index), for example by allowing to amend the last commit.
I wouldn't claim that gitless is a 100% complete git replacement for expert users. It just shows that git has way too much state exposed to users, and has confusing commands to make that state interact. Obviously we all learned git and use it successfully, so it's obviously not broken or anything, it's just worse than it could be (and the constant chorus of "it's so simple, just a DAG!" is a bit grating if you have to teach beginners regularly).
The gitless authors did do some research with users that backs up the claim that this is conceptually easier to use:
It's not a power-user feature, and it shouldn't be considered one. It should be taught as a standard part of any workflow: before committing, look at the changes you're about to add, and use hunk-staging features (e.g. trivial using Magit) to stage and commit unrelated changes separately.
For example, did you clean up some comments and docstrings while you were adding a new feature? Commit those improvements separately, so that if you need to revert the feature commit later, the improvements won't also be reverted. It also makes reviewing much easier, as each commit or patch, having its own purpose, can easily be reviewed separately, and attention can be focused on parts that need changing.
> Again there are ways to achieve this without introducing new state (the index), for example by allowing to amend the last commit.
Amending a commit does not serve the same purpose as staging files and hunks separately into the index.
It's my impression that few git users understand the value of the index, because few of them use porcelains that expose its power in simple ways. If I had only "git add -p" to use, I might not, either. But Magit is, well, like its name implies, like magic.
And your workflow of gradually building up an index of (parts of) files can be achieved by partial/amendable commits. You simply iteratively/interactively add files and partial files to your latest commit until you're done. Instead of building up the index and then committing it, you just build up the commit directly.
This also means you can interact with the "in progress commit" in the same way as with all other commits.
There is no need for having an index to realize what you want.
Another minor point: Your workflow _is_ a power user workflow in my world. Out of twenty people that have reason to use git, one has use for this workflow.
It seems we roughly agree that there is a lot of scope for improving git though. I looked at magit and it looks nice. It exposes all the moving parts in a user interface. I would prefer to just have fewer moving parts, but if they are there it's sensible to make them obvious (and it puts to rest the idea that all you need to understand is that the git data structure is a DAG...)
gl merge - merge the divergent changes of one branch onto another
gl fuse - fuse the divergent changes of one branch onto another
The list you provide sounded great until it came to gl switch. Why is there one specific operation for a branch that is NOT done via gl branch?
I don't understand what fuse is supposed to do from this at all. No idea whatsoever. Merge I get and anyone who has worked with any other versioning tool does conceptually.
Rebase most people seem to have a problem with but the abstract concept really isn't that hard. Just like cherry pick isn't really hard but somehow people have trouble with it. Though conceptually it really isn't hard either.
What really helped me the most with git was the realization that it's just a tree of commits with a bunch of labels. Labels have different types so to speak, like branch or tag, remote branches being special in a way etc. And obviously various commands can interact with these labels. Like a fetch updates the remote labels and moves them around on my local copy.
gl commit a.foo b.bar
gl commit -e a.foo b.bar
gl doesn't take any abilities away (it's just git under the hood after all), it just exposes the abilities in sane ways.
If you actually look at the homepage of gitless you will also immediately see what fuse does:
I believe that by reading that one, not very long page, most people (including non-programmers) can use gl correctly most of the time. This is not the case for git.
BTW, gl branch is for creating/deleting branches, gl switch is for switching your working tree from one branch to another. These are very different things, why should they be under the same command?
For git, the last paragraph is a necessary but in no way sufficient step towards using it proficiently. Gitless is actually much closer to realizing that vision.
Seriously, people need to go back and teach beginners git to realize how bad it is. We have internalized so much of the bad design decisions in git that we don't notice them anymore.
I understand what gl branch "is supposed to do" but I don't see why gl switch is its own command given the other reasoning presented for why gl "is better".
I would say it is different. Probably very workable. Completely intuitive and the only reasonable way to do version control? Definitely not.
To me it's very very natural that git checkout will check out any commit I give it. How I specify that commit is up to me. It could be the commit hash. It could be a text label. That text label might on a logical level be a branch. Or a tag. Why do I need to switch branches with a special switch command when checkout handles this perfectly well?
And no, my post did not say that you will understand the details of every command in the list from just looking at the list. It only said that the list demonstrates that a much more coherent, less stateful, simply better UI is possible. That you can not fully explain the difference of fuse and merge in one sentence summaries is not a counterexample to that.
I said you will have an accurate mental model of what's going on. From the summaries you can tell all state you interact with: Working Tree, Commits, Track/Untrack status. That's it. That mental model is perfectly sufficient to accurately predict what most anything will do. And crucially the explanations and mechanisms to achieve all the workflows people asked for in this comment thread can be achieved with these ingredients just fine.
It's what the "Git is easy! You just need to understand that it's a DAG!" crowd pretends git already is.
This is HN criticism #94238 on the terrible git CLI.
Okay, sure.
Would you kindly post your superior git CLI? Or at least the outline of it?
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Snark aside, Git's popularity is not an accident. Bitbucket supported Mercurial too.
You are literally replying to a comment that describes a possible better CLI for git...
I maintain git stacks up well against other similarly mature/complex software (Nginx, AWS, Java), but it's a wonderful read nonetheless.
(And holy hell what a hard thing to search for...can't find the link.)
The trick is to remember it's called "git koans"
This is not essential complexity, it's just bad design that stuck.
Take a look at https://gitless.com/
If you just look at a summary of the commands, you will have an accurate mental model of what's going on:
To me this clearly demonstrates that the problem isn't that people aren't learning git, it's that git is bad to learn. Stash + Index + Working Tree isn't the right abstraction to present to people. Just say there is a working tree, and tracked and untracked files and snapshots. Done. Branches aren't particular commits but particular working trees on top of particular commits.Working on a feature and want to look at the main branch, but not ready to commit the changes yet? Well just switch to the main branch, then switch back and pick up where you started. No need to know about an additional data structure called the stash.
Unfortunately this did not pick up enough steam. And because a lot of tools expose concepts from gits broken interface you have to learn the git interface anyway...