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Re:Tesla is ordered to turn over Autopilot data to a federal... by guhidalg on Thursday September 02, 2021 @10:16AM (#28392294)
> It’s also 12 than any normal attentive human has gotten into

Are you comparing a fleet of cars driving millions of miles to the performance of one ostensibly good driver? Ok, I guess we’ll need perfect systems, see you after the heat death of the universe.

Re:Tesla is ordered to turn over Autopilot data to a federal... by mikepurvis on Thursday September 02, 2021 @10:58AM (#28392877)
I get this argument in abstract, but I don't think it's fair when we're talking about obviously unsafe behaviour that literally no human driver should ever do, except in cases of like, extreme medical distress.

It's about the unknown unknowns. If you have Teslas slamming into stopped emergency vehicles with their lights on, and you don't know why, what else don't we know about their ability to perceive and reason about the world that they're navigating in?

Re:Tesla is ordered to turn over Autopilot data to a federal... by snovv_crash on Thursday September 02, 2021 @12:32PM (#28394121)
The failure modes of a new driving system are going to be distributed differently than the old system. This is exactly the same flawed argument as "we should ban all human drivers because in the situation where they get drunk they have lots of accidents and self-driving cars don't have that problem".

That said, I suspect there is some systematic issue with Tesla's system and flashing lights, and I bet they are working like demons to identify and fix it already.

Re:Tesla is ordered to turn over Autopilot data to a federal... by asddubs on Thursday September 02, 2021 @01:25PM (#28394830)
which unfortunately also makes them less predictable for other drivers and thus harder to account for/react to in time
Re:Tesla is ordered to turn over Autopilot data to a federal... by kook_throwaway on Thursday September 02, 2021 @12:18PM (#28393945)
Humans should never do it, but I'd be surprised if it happened less than once a week.
Re:Tesla is ordered to turn over Autopilot data to a federal... by mikepurvis on Thursday September 02, 2021 @04:29PM (#28396938)
Really? Not steering into a stopped, highly visible emergency vehicle with its lights on?

Humans do a lot of dumb, irresponsible things on the road, but this is not one of them.

Re:Tesla is ordered to turn over Autopilot data to a federal... by kook_throwaway on Thursday September 02, 2021 @06:08PM (#28397993)
It shouldn't even be a question, seriously?

This cop[1] tells a lady not to stand between the vehicles because she will get killed if his patrol car gets hit, and seconds later it happens and he says "just like that".

>this is not one of them.

Yes[2], this[3] is[4] one[5] of[6] them[7].

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZDIwaRWCl0

[2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97D3llj0KSQ

[3] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pV5FrWTATDY

[4] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=loex5U9zD0s

[5] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=khz9hlpvhko

[6] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uyaa6zEHZ2Q

[7] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=piT4lZBGU4w

Re:Tesla is ordered to turn over Autopilot data to a federal... by adanto6840 on Thursday September 02, 2021 @10:06PM (#28399677)
This is the reality of the situation and, frankly, should be a top-level comment. I don't really have a horse in this overall race but IMO your factual perspective is spot-on -- this has happened, plenty of times, by actual humans.

Just like anything else, it may not be common (or it may be 'uncommon') but, to say that it never happens, is plainly, clearly and objectively false.

Re:Tesla is ordered to turn over Autopilot data to a federal... by yawaworht1978 on Thursday September 02, 2021 @11:38AM (#28393412)
Nope, he is simply saying that a human of sound state of mind does not have these accidents.

The authorities are simply viewing Tesla's credibility as undermined. They ask themselves, if it can't do this, how can it get anything right, or there must be many more flaws.

The humans do not like to pass over control to machines unless the machines do it clearly better.

And in this case, the authority does not want to have their credibility shot by looking away from the Tesla issue, it cannot be pushed under the metaphorical carpet anymore, there is a bulge under the carpet visible to anyone who wants to see.

Re:Tesla is ordered to turn over Autopilot data to a federal... by yifanl on Thursday September 02, 2021 @10:20AM (#28392366)
There's never going to be a perfect comparison when the same AI can drive every car in the fleet at the same time, whereas one human brain can drive at most one car at a time.
Re:Tesla is ordered to turn over Autopilot data to a federal... by garyfirestorm on Thursday September 02, 2021 @11:28AM (#28393267)
Yeah but the issue is at hand is specifically 12 cars. You can put 12 humans in cars and watch them brake before hitting emergency vehicles. If they’re claiming AI is better than humans then it’s important to understand why these 12 are so bad.