> "Doing what you love" is a total new-age garbage scam, only possible because we (most of us on HN) collectively live in the wealthiest, most powerful empire the world has ever seen

You seem to be implying that living in a wealthy, powerful society somehow invalidates the opportunities that affords.

> and nearly all of the important work (food, defense, fuel, manufacturing, etc.) is done by lower class citizens who don't know what an API is.

such work is important but it's not true that this is "nearly all of the important work". Our modern world couldn't exist without, for example, so many of the decades and centuries of developments in the various branches of mathematics and science. Think of how much of the modern world is dependent upon our understanding of Quantum Mechanics, for example.

> Don't worry so much about "loving your career", I promise you no migrant farm workers harvesting your berries love their career, and yet I doubt they wake up with internal mental crises because they haven't achieved self-actualization at work.

Some people actually do love what they do for work. All things being equal, it's better to be one of these people.

One reason you can love an area of work is because you think it is important or valuable, and contributes something meaningful to society. Whereas some forms of work don't appear to contribute much to society (and I think people tend to hate these sorts of jobs). So that is a good reason for doing what you love.

"Other people hate their job so it's ok to hate yours too, suck it."

What a stupid take. Is it so bad to want a better life? Yes, my life is _already_ better than berries pickers, but that doesn't mean my concerns and pains aren't valid. We should level up, not keep everyone down because there's always someone who is having it worse than you.

That's not actually what I'm trying to say, and I certainly never said anything about doing a job that you hate. Many people today seem to hold the view that they ought to find some sort of passionate self-actualizing experience from the work they do, which is an extremely limiting belief that also does a lot of mental damage to people who either a) can't get a job doing what they love b) get their dream job and realize they don't actually love it. Neither situation a) nor b) is actually a problem unless you hold a belief that if you're not doing what you love, something's wrong with your life.

Doing "what you love" ought to be a perk for the lucky, not a basic requirement for employment. People need to try to do what they're good at that others find valuable; caring whether or not you "love it" or find it "fulfilling" is a luxury. The time to expect to love life is when you are with your family and your friends, not when you're at work. Nearly anyone who thinks that a job can give a fraction of the satisfaction that raising a family or spending time in their community is in for a world of hurt. There are certainly some exceptions, but if you travel around the world to hospice centers and ask people what they regret, very few say "I wish I'd worked more".

If you can find a job you love, certainly do that, but don't hold the expectation that if you can't find a job that you love, something is wrong with your life. A tolerable job that allows you to make an impact on people close to you outside of work is perfectly acceptable, and a lot easier to find than something that you feel defines you that you're passionate about.

"I don't go to a place called fun, I go to a place called work". - Some guy's dad in an article I read

> If you can find a job you love, certainly do that, but don't hold the expectation that if you can't find a job that you love, something is wrong with your life

Thanks for clarifying, that's indeed what I didn't get from your original message

That's not at all what I got from their comment. I believe you may be constructing a strawman with your summary.

Concur- I do use a pretty harsh tone when I talk about this, but it's definitely not what I mean to say.

The downside though, if you do what you hate you’re likely going to be bad at it or hit a ceiling soon. Im not saying you should ignore the financial aspect (unless you’ve already figured that out or was handed out to you) but you should try to lean into whatever you’re best at.

We see people start in a direction and then later veer their career into a different direction and are happier and more successful. It’s probably got something to do with liking it more...

I see where you are coming from, my dad always said the same to me. However, I personally could never think like that. I could never "sling javascript for 10 years" if I didn't like doing so at some basic level. For others, they might be able to do it and compensate for it with hobbies, or delay gratification until it pays off later.

In either case, whatever you do has to put food on the table and pay the bills. You can't use "I don't like what I do" as an excuse to get out of your responsibilities. As long as you are responsible enough about that, neither path seems like garbage or scam to me. To each his own.

Clearly over time, more people are having the opportunity to marry what they like to do with what puts food on the table, and surely, that is something to be celebrated.

There is a separate (but related) debate on how you define success and how far you decide to keep slinging javascript until you say I've had enough and can devote my life to more intrinsic desires even if they don't make as much money. As a society, we need to make more people realize that is a perfectly fine tradeoff to make as long it's a responsible choice for you and your family.

Self-actualization when working a job for mere survival doesn't happen because of the job, it would happen in spite of it.

Succeeding in spite of something means that something is an obstacle.

Usually, it's good sense to remove obstacles.

There's little any single person can change in this world, in reality. It's a large and complicated place and most change requires machinations much larger than an individual.

The nature of the work we do while we're alive on this planet is one of the things that humans have the real ability to change.

Modern society does require that we operate interdependently and cross-disciplinarily. We need people working in various strata and with various skillsets, but that doesn't mean one shouldn't pursue their passions.

Why would you reject what you love rather than pursue it? Money? That only makes sense when it's a matter of raw survival, and if it's a matter of raw survival then you're not on the path to self-actualization, you're on the path to cortisol-fueled live-or-die decision making.

Money's not a measure of a person. It's nothing more than a stand-in for energy transfer.

Real value and the road to self-actualization is in your experience in life, and if that is overwhelmingly negative in your day-to-day and you are continually separated from what you love then guess what kind of life you have had?

It is a good think that people now have the choice to live in ways that you don’t agree with. In the same way that you have a choice to live they way you want to even when most people disagree. It’s called Freedom by the way.

Hear! Hear! :-) It really amazes me why people are not willing to acknowledge their own status in a hierarchical society. Recognizing where you stand and who you are indebted to, is the first step towards a equitable society.

If you have not already read it, i recommend Jack London's The Sea-Wolf to you (have listed some excerpts in this thread).