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Re:How to fight microplastic pollution with magnets by beervirus on Sunday August 29, 2021 @11:40PM (#28352611)
Is there any credible evidence about harm caused by microplastics? I’ve seen a lot of stuff about how ubiquitous it is, but very little about its actual effects.
Re:How to fight microplastic pollution with magnets by irjustin on Sunday August 29, 2021 @11:58PM (#28352697)
Very fair question - It's a mixed bag. Too easy to point to studies that point one way or another.

One study[0] shows that microplastics can cause irritation which could lead to problems. Any underlying condition, this could make it worse. But it's hard to identify conclusive evidence. You'll find pretty equal amount of studies claiming harm vs no-harm, which makes a lot of the whole thing suspect.

Clearly plastics are extremely stable so our bodies breaking them down into the chemical components is basically zero. A lot of the question of microplastics stems around whether or not your body holds onto them long term after ingestion and more importantly if that leads to any significant issues.

Personally, I'm still not concerned. It's not nearly as clear as asbestos in terms of health issues. The risk-reward model of plastics makes me believe it's here to stay for a long time.

[0] https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-020-64464-9

Re:How to fight microplastic pollution with magnets by DoingIsLearning on Monday August 30, 2021 @02:42AM (#28353275)
> The risk-reward model of plastics

Risk for whom, and reward for whom?

You imply that it is the people exposed to the risk that largely benefit when it is mostly a margin/profit reward for companies who continue to externalize the environmental costs of plastic onto everybody else.

Reminder that Coca-Cola alone produces more than 110 _billion_ PET bottles a year, without any responsability for their collection or safe disposal. [0]

Disposal of plastic, should be an operational cost for the likes of Coca-Cola, Nestle, Pepsico, Unilever, Kraft, Mars, etc.

[0] https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/oct/02/coca-col...

Re:How to fight microplastic pollution with magnets by eru on Monday August 30, 2021 @03:26AM (#28353449)
> You imply that it is the people exposed to the risk that largely benefit when it is mostly a margin/profit reward for companies who continue to externalize the environmental costs of plastic onto everybody else.

That argument would work for plastics that are used internally inside eg Coca-Cola.

But your next example talks about bottles handed out to customers. The benefit here is to those customers.

If eg customers were demanding glass bottles (because of some benefit), and demanding them enough to pay the difference in production costs (including shipping costs etc), Coca-Cola would gladly sell them glass bottles.

In any case, corporations are just legal shells. The real stakeholders are still people. Customers, shareholders, creditors, suppliers, rank-and-file workers and, most important in practice, managers.

Re:How to fight microplastic pollution with magnets by DoingIsLearning on Monday August 30, 2021 @03:56AM (#28353579)
> If eg customers were demanding glass bottles (because of some benefit)

Please provide evidence that this is market pull rather than company push? How many convenience stores provide a glass or aluminium alternative? How much advertising is done with PET bottles versus the alternatives?

> and demanding them enough to pay the difference in production costs (including shipping costs etc)

Plastic is cheaper because companies have externalized the cost of waste disposal. The environmental impact of plastic has a cost that current polluting companies are not paying.

Re:How to fight microplastic pollution with magnets by eru on Tuesday August 31, 2021 @10:41AM (#28368714)
> Please provide evidence that this is market pull rather than company push? How many convenience stores provide a glass or aluminium alternative? How much advertising is done with PET bottles versus the alternatives?

Most beer comes in glass bottles. The economics that ostensibly make companies prefer PET over glass are just the same for beer as for soda. The difference is in consumer preferences.

> Plastic is cheaper because companies have externalized the cost of waste disposal. The environmental impact of plastic has a cost that current polluting companies are not paying.

Compare this alternative point of view:

Consumers prefers soda in plastic bottles over the alternatives, because they reap all the benefits, while the cost of waste disposal has been externalized. The environmental impact of plastic has a cost that current polluting customers are not paying.

Re:How to fight microplastic pollution with magnets by DoingIsLearning on Thursday September 02, 2021 @02:21AM (#28389208)
> Most beer comes in glass bottles. The economics that ostensibly make companies prefer PET over glass are just the same for beer as for soda. The difference is in consumer preferences.

Absolutely false, mass volume beer manufacturers would absolutely love to push for plastic beer bottles. However plastic is actually far more permeable to oxygen than glass and so beer slowly goes flat in plastic bottles, which is why they are forced to use glass. The reason is purely technical and has absolutely nothing to do with consumer preference.

Re:How to fight microplastic pollution with magnets by irjustin on Monday August 30, 2021 @03:38AM (#28353494)
The risk (whether environmental, personal, etc) vs reward (cheap stable containers, easy to mold, easy to handle material) to the individual person will make it stay.

I'm not disagreeing with you. I'm just pointing to the reality that plastics there are so many benefits and it's so entrenched as part of our lives that it's not going anywhere.

Regulation of clean up would be one great solution.

Re:How to fight microplastic pollution with magnets by strainer on Monday August 30, 2021 @04:45AM (#28353799)
If someone introduced microplastics to your house while you had no part in it - so you find yourself eating and breathing little bits of hydrocarbon chemicals which none of your ancestors in natural history have ever ingested. No mites can digest it, no moulds can compost it, nothing has ever lived with it, its just a new mysterious stuff that you and your children are going to be surrounded by, and get in your lungs and blood and live within from now on ... And you feel fine about it until convinced by science that you shouldnt. Against the advertisements and persuasions of a big industry, how long did it take to establish that cigarette smoke was dangerous? Leaded petrol? AGW? Ay but its probably fine! We can only imagine, chick skeletons full of plastic beads, certain species of sea creatures and microbiota due to perish because they mistake plastic for food, ecologicaly distruptively novel microbiota evolving which may capable of digesting the different kinds of plastic and additives which are alien to life - after billions of years, an alien substance everywhere. No probs, no 'credible evidence' of probs. Carry on then.
Re:How to fight microplastic pollution with magnets by formerly_proven on Monday August 30, 2021 @05:02AM (#28353880)
The funny thing about tobacco is that it was widely known to be very toxic for hundreds of years before cigarettes were invented. Likewise people realized that leaded petrol (and its fumes) would be toxic, the state and petrol industry disregarded this because leaded petrol was seen as alternativlos.

Science has a fairly decent track record at finding these things. Policy has a fairly shit track record at responding.

Re:How to fight microplastic pollution with magnets by Gravityloss on Monday August 30, 2021 @05:34AM (#28354066)
Lead paint was banned here in 1929. I think in USA in the seventies?
Re:How to fight microplastic pollution with magnets by marcosdumay on Monday August 30, 2021 @09:11AM (#28355298)
Yet lead was known to be toxic since ancient times.

As the GP said, science has a good track record of identifying those things.

Re:How to fight microplastic pollution with magnets by Gravityloss on Monday August 30, 2021 @09:15AM (#28355331)
Yeah, so cigarettes, climate change, endocrine disruptors, soil depletion, dioxines, phosphorus catastrophe.
Re:How to fight microplastic pollution with magnets by marcosdumay on Monday August 30, 2021 @09:17AM (#28355343)
Ok, I think phosphorous catastrophes were not predicted.
Re:How to fight microplastic pollution with magnets by Gravityloss on Monday August 30, 2021 @10:16AM (#28355875)
There's a global one ongoing.

Basically phosphorus that has accumulated over a long time is flushed to the seas in a hundred years.

Re:How to fight microplastic pollution with magnets by gizmondo on Monday August 30, 2021 @09:42AM (#28355560)
> And you feel fine about it until convinced by science that you shouldnt.

Do you per chance also advocate against 5G?

Re:How to fight microplastic pollution with magnets by beervirus on Monday August 30, 2021 @08:11AM (#28354835)
So, no evidence then?
Re:How to fight microplastic pollution with magnets by mediaguilt on Monday August 30, 2021 @12:46AM (#28352869)
It would probably not be an issue if it was just plastic. The problem is most plastics contain other chemicals. Many are harmful like BPA or flame retardants. And the these plastics are recycled with their chemicals and made into new plastics and more chemicals, etc…
Re:How to fight microplastic pollution with magnets by 01100011 on Monday August 30, 2021 @03:19AM (#28353411)
Unrelated, I would love to hear the reasoning of the folks downvoting your question. Is it because they think you're insinuating that microplastics are just fine(you do not appear to be)? I think most HN readers would appreciate a chance to have a conversation on this and perhaps enlighten some people.

Please folks, use the downvote thoughtfully.

Re:How to fight microplastic pollution with magnets by franklovecchio on Monday August 30, 2021 @01:44AM (#28353074)
From 2016 - https://science.sciencemag.org/content/351/6277/1039.1.full seems to point to a paywall link https://pubs.acs.org/doi/full/10.1021/acs.est.5b05478

> They show that environmentally relevant microplastic concentrations led to reduced earthworm growth and elevated mortality as compared to a control. Futhermore, earthworms may transport microplastics into soils, from which they may leach into surface waters.

Re:How to fight microplastic pollution with magnets by chana_masala on Sunday August 29, 2021 @11:48PM (#28352644)
Yes, as one example: disrupts hormones in many animals - including fish and humans.
Re:How to fight microplastic pollution with magnets by jazzyjackson on Monday August 30, 2021 @01:03AM (#28352940)
just to back you up with one citation: "Microplastics Cause Endocrine Disruption and Respiratory Damage in Fish"

https://www.technologynetworks.com/immunology/news/microplas...

Chronic Microfiber Exposure in Adult Japanese Medaka (Oryzias latipes). Lingling Hu, Melissa Chernick, Anna M. Lewis, P. Lee Ferguson and David E. Hinton. PLoS ONE, March 9, 2020. DOI: https://doi.org/10.1371/journal.pone.0229962.

Re:How to fight microplastic pollution with magnets by eurasiantiger on Monday August 30, 2021 @01:13AM (#28352972)
There is an entire society devoted to researching this area.

https://www.endocrine.org/topics/edc/what-edcs-are

Re:How to fight microplastic pollution with magnets by morpheos137 on Monday August 30, 2021 @12:07AM (#28352728)
No. It is mostly inert dust. Despite the hysteria. Unless you are talking vinyl monomer or something.
Re:How to fight microplastic pollution with magnets by formerly_proven on Monday August 30, 2021 @04:42AM (#28353784)
^ This is correct. PP and PE account for more than 2/3 of microplastics and are biologically completely inert, which only leaves physical tissue irritation to get an effect (like e.g. the very different Asbestos fibers do). Another 10 % is PET where it is not as easy to tell (because it is a much more complex plastic than PE and PP), however, I have not seen any credible evidence that PET is biologically active (e.g. as an EDC) except for a few bacteria which apparently digest it. As far as I know even the monomers of PET aren't endocrine disrupting, which is overall a rare property in plastics (the monomers of many plastics are pretty nasty stuff and so if the process control is bad, there is a good chance that precursor chemicals end up unbound in the finished plastic).

Overall this means ~80 % or so of microplastics are pretty much what parent says: biologically inert dust.

Re:How to fight microplastic pollution with magnets by eurasiantiger on Monday August 30, 2021 @06:37AM (#28354342)
Except, of course, for the plasticisers within…
Re:How to fight microplastic pollution with magnets by formerly_proven on Monday August 30, 2021 @07:01AM (#28354432)
Plasticizers are very rarely used for polymers whose name is not PVC.