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Re:Apple’s crackdown on multicast by simonh on Tuesday August 24, 2021 @06:56AM (#28287130)
I really don't consider myself a free market extremist. I fully support regulation for health and safety reasons, mandatory accurate and informative product descriptions, minimum quality requirements in many areas, consumer protection laws such as minimum warranty periods. There are many areas where it makes sense for us collectively, through our governments, to make sure we as consumers are not getting ripped off and get a fair deal. It's just balancing out the power disparity between vendors and individual customers.

So I am open to arguments for regulating mobile phone platforms, if that proves to be necessary. I just don't think it is, none of the arguments Ive seen so far are compelling. They mostly seem to be sour grapes. "I want to buy X product with P, Q, R features and nobody is making one, we should force them to by law". No, that's not how that works.

Re:Apple’s crackdown on multicast by ghaff on Tuesday August 24, 2021 @08:08AM (#28287725)
And, if by mobile, you mean network connected, even if you built your own hardware from components, you still don't own and control the networks (cellular or otherwise) over which that device will communicate.

ADDED: And if it's not obvious from the context, by "network" I mean a network that can communicate with the broader world, not just a LAN.

Re:Apple’s crackdown on multicast by judge2020 on Tuesday August 24, 2021 @08:48AM (#28288121)
Also, you probably don’t have the right to make your own mobile modem unless you’re fine with it needing its own car battery and alternator thanks to Qualcomm’s patents.
Re:Apple’s crackdown on multicast by shuckles on Tuesday August 24, 2021 @10:55AM (#28289651)
Standards patents must be made available to license. Apple tried really hard to invest in a competing cellular modem provider (Intel) and gave up. Turns out, they’re really hard to build, and that’s why you can’t build one. Not patents.
Re:Apple’s crackdown on multicast by judge2020 on Tuesday August 24, 2021 @11:27AM (#28290114)
Apple did purchase Intel's modem division[0], so while they temporarily have started purchasing from Qualcomm, maybe they're throwing more R&D at it than Intel did to actually compete with Qualcomm within the next few years.

0: https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2019/07/apple-to-acquire-the-...

Re:Apple’s crackdown on multicast by simonh on Tuesday August 24, 2021 @08:22AM (#28287858)
I'm not following you. What's to stop you setting up your own local network, entirely under your control?
Re:Apple’s crackdown on multicast by danaris on Tuesday August 24, 2021 @08:44AM (#28288063)
For a LAN: Nothing, but you won't be able to communicate to anyone outside of it. You also won't be able to access it away from wherever you set it up.

For the primary networks at issue here, cellular networks: The FCC, and regulations restricting what devices can access which EM frequencies legally.

Re:Apple’s crackdown on multicast by throw0101a on Tuesday August 24, 2021 @09:53AM (#28288845)
Nit: it is possible to build a private LTE/5G network if you use appropriate spectrum reserved for that purpose:

* https://www.sierrawireless.com/iot-blog/what-are-private-lte...

Not sure about connectivity to the larger / global SS7 network.

Re:Apple’s crackdown on multicast by simonh on Tuesday August 24, 2021 @09:08AM (#28288338)
So, you don't own other people's networks? Right.
Re:Apple’s crackdown on multicast by beckman466 on Tuesday August 24, 2021 @07:16AM (#28287279)
> They mostly seem to be sour grapes. "I want to buy X product with P, Q, R features and nobody is making one, we should force them to by law". No, that's not how that works.

I think it’s closer to: I bought a 10% black box (90% open) widget in the 1990s, and now in 2020 that same widget (with a few more functions) is 80% closed. And: why can I no longer use a generic computer for what I want to use it for? We’ve forgotten that an open distributed learning web is possible, and how instead computer literacy (programming) is very low because most of us can no longer follow our curiosity and look inside technological systems; only ‘experts' are allowed to do that (someone wrote about that recently, that whenever he talked to older/earlier computer hobbyists, how most of them mention that they are pretty disappointed by today‘s black box world/web).

And no they’re not ‘sour grapes‘, they’re just sensing the painful ways in which the commons has been plundered, and feeling frustrated by the way people such as yourself pretend that there are still many benefits to be found in locked down/black box platforms and devices, which there aren't.

The completely ludicrous part is how normalized all this is today. How much our tools are now over-engineered, non-modular and non-repairable; how much black box shit we produce. Literal shit. Single use shit. Biological systems have no waste, yet our current production systems produce the most toxic, anti-life sludge the world has seen (see Baotou -> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_UdqZdFr-w). Today we produce coffee machines that have iPads sitting in a dock with virtual buttons to choose options. An iPad. What the fuck. What is that? Infinitely less complex technology was used to send people to the moon. What a complete and total waste of valuable resources and laborers' time!

I'm talking about how we could have so many more open standards and decide to produce only high quality stuff. But no, our culture teaches us to discredit those who came before and to commoditize tiny incremental updates, slapping our own names on them (‘branding’) to please our neglected and alienated souls. I’m so tired of this false story of the need for competition. Humans are copying machine. It’s ok to copy! It’s how we learn and grow.

Anyways, to get closer to a 'universal basic inheritance' - a commons that respects actual scarcity, and thus also the abundance of digital resources (scientific knowledge and technological blueprints), we need a new system for accounting. I believe http://valueflo.ws can offer us a very possible way forward https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vymAHXGSM14: they are radically distributed supply chain systems using the Resource-Event-Agent ontology, built on fully distributed tech, e.g. holochain and activitypub.

To see an exciting future that has been buried yet not forgotten (it's a new Cybersyn documentary): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RJLA2_Ho7X0

Re:Apple’s crackdown on multicast by simonh on Tuesday August 24, 2021 @08:06AM (#28287698)
This is so out of touch with the actual real world it's a bit concerning. There are plenty of open computing platforms kids can learn from these days, and schools are full of them. PCs are still pretty open, Linux is easy to install, Raspberry Pi and similar devices are cheap and accessible. My kids learned about all that stuff at school here in the UK. In most developed countries almost every kid in school gets to learn how to write at least simple programs. I taught my kids Python on their iPads.

>...pretend there are still many benefits to be found in locked down platforms and devices, which there isn't.

Now you're in lala land. People derive enormous benefits from ubiquitous access to easy to use computer technology all the time. They're just not the benefits you personally seem to value or understand.

Re:Apple’s crackdown on multicast by ClumsyPilot on Tuesday August 24, 2021 @09:04AM (#28288299)
"There are plenty of open computing platforms"

And roughly zero of them can make a phonecall, or a contactless payment, or to find directions on the go because they are not portable and internet connected.

Re:Apple’s crackdown on multicast by skydhash on Tuesday August 24, 2021 @10:18AM (#28289175)
All of the areas you mentioned are heavily regulated. And do GPS require internet connection ?
Re:Apple’s crackdown on multicast by ghaff on Tuesday August 24, 2021 @08:17AM (#28287797)
Yeah, I'm not sure where this incredibly open world of 1999 (to say nothing of 1989 or 1979) existed.

Telephony has always been very closed--fringe phone phreaking notwithstanding. Heck, some of us have been around long enough to remember when you had to rent a phone from a regulated monopoly.

And in the 90s, Windows was mostly your choice in a computer. You could build your own PCs but you mostly had to run Windows. (Linux was still quite early days at that time.)

Access to computing under the hood is much more democratized than it used to be even if the vast majority of people choose to use effectively appliances for certain tasks.

Re:Apple’s crackdown on multicast by danaris on Tuesday August 24, 2021 @08:47AM (#28288101)
And, if I recall correctly, in the '90s, you had to pay for developer tools for Windows. (Or Mac, but Windows was, indeed, mostly your choice in a computer.) Today, every mainstream computer shipped—Mac and Windows—has a dizzying variety of free-as-in-beer development environments available for them, many also free-as-in-freedom.
Re:Apple’s crackdown on multicast by ghaff on Tuesday August 24, 2021 @08:56AM (#28288204)
Yes. Developer tools (and consumer software generally) were quite expensive. A typical compiler from Microsoft was hundreds of dollars. (Borland drove pricing down somewhat.) I forget what an MSDN subscription cost but it wasn't cheap.
Re:Apple’s crackdown on multicast by iso1210 on Tuesday August 24, 2021 @09:45AM (#28288761)
> I bought a 10% black box (90% open) widget in the 1990s, and now in 2020 that same widget (with a few more functions) is 80% closed.

My mobile phone in the 90s was certainly not 90% open, it was far less open than my current iphone. I guess it was easier to change the battery, if that's what you mean? Swapping a proprietary battery doesn't count as open in my book.

My desktop computer in the 90s on the other hand was far more closed than my current one.