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Re:FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine by handoflixue on Monday August 23, 2021 @01:08PM (#28278917)
> Being able to sue.

Why is suing vital? What's insufficient about the existing National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program? https://www.hrsa.gov/vaccine-compensation/index.html (I'm genuinely unfamiliar with any flaws it might have)

> Many rights have been taken away (some permanently)

What rights have been permanently removed? For that matter, what RIGHTS have been even temporarily suspended?

Re:FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine by nsxwolf on Monday August 23, 2021 @01:58PM (#28279598)
Many people consider the freedom of movement without constantly having to show papers to be a right, even if it's not explicitly codified in some law or constitution.

I could say I have a right to breathe air and someone would probably come around and tell me I'm wrong, but most people have some intuition for what a "natural" right is, and bristle when something encroaches on those.

Re:FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine by mywittyname on Monday August 23, 2021 @02:39PM (#28280124)
You're not addressing the issue posed by the GP.

If you experience severe enough side-effects from the vaccine to warrant a lawsuit, then you are still entitled to sue for compensation. The only thing that has changes is the entity who you are suing.

The Countermeasures Injury Compensation Program makes this process much easier than a traditional lawsuit, as you merely have to convince a judge that your symptoms were likely caused by the vaccine. If they agree, you get paid.

If you sued Pfizer, then you'd probably be in a class action, going up against some of the best lawyers in the world, in a case that would drag out for a decade or more, likely have no real say in the case strategy, and would just have to accept whatever agreement the class representative agrees to.

Re:FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine by handoflixue on Monday August 23, 2021 @02:35PM (#28280075)
I don't think anyone is stopping you from breathing air. Interstate travel is still open. I'm allowed to walk around my neighborhood. No one is requiring me to show "papers" for any of this.

I know not everyone has the same set of restrictions on them, so I'm genuinely trying to understand if I'm missing something about how other areas are behaving. I know Australia is at the "papers, please" curfew stage, and that definitely bothers me a lot, but I haven't heard of anything like that in the USA.

Re:FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine by wait_a_minute on Monday August 23, 2021 @04:22PM (#28281407)
Australia didn’t get there over night. It was bit by bit. Pseudo-intellectuals would have said it’s a “slippery slope” back when people urged caution though.

Maybe the slope into authoritarianism is actually slippery.

Re:FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine by throwawayzz007 on Monday August 23, 2021 @02:27PM (#28279966)
> What's insufficient about the existing National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program?

Max compensation is $250k. Life insurance values my life far more. Documents are under seal. Payouts are paid by the tax payer, not the manufacturers. Cases are heard by HHS and defended by DOJ (more taxes footing the bill). HHS has repeatedly refused to add certain injuries to their compensation tables even after CDC directed research indicates that such injuries have been proven to be causal (eg: motor tics in those that received thimerosol containing vaccines). Most cases now go years before any decision is made when the original stated purpose of the program was speedy settlements (6 months or less). The only expert witnesses that might be allowed to speak in secret vaccine court will likely be the scientists that were paid to design the vaccine in question by industry. Doctors that have testified against industry in this court (and others like it in other nations) have had their careers destroyed by retaliatory tactics.

I find it quite funny and sad that you need to ask “what’s wrong with this special, secret court?” What’s NOT wrong with a special, secret court designed to protect a massive industry? NO PRODUCT CLASS should be protected in this manner.

Re:FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine by handoflixue on Monday August 23, 2021 @02:32PM (#28280038)
I'd heard others arguing for it and hadn't personally investigated it, so I appreciate the response!

I do think that given my own evaluation of the risks and rewards, the NVICP is perfectly sufficient for my own needs, but I can certainly see how one would be opposed to this on a systemic level, or if you believe the risk-reward ratio skews differently

Re:FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine by slumdev on Monday August 23, 2021 @03:40PM (#28280914)
> the NVICP is perfectly sufficient for my own needs

How do you reach this conclusion?

At a max $250k per life, paid through a secret court with the deck stacked against the plaintiff, it doesn't appear to be sufficient for anyone's needs.

Re:FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine by handoflixue on Monday August 23, 2021 @04:17PM (#28281361)
It's a simple risk-reward calculation: the vaccine protects me from Covid-19. The chance of side effects is very low. The chance of severe, long-term complications that cause me more than $250K in damages is even lower.

Yeah, there's a tiny risk that I'll end up in a situation where I get screwed over, but I'm significantly more likely to suffer harm from Covid.

Your own calculations will vary, of course - this is just the math given my own risk factors.

Re:FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine by slumdev on Monday August 23, 2021 @04:37PM (#28281582)
It's actually the math that I'm questioning, not the subjective aspects.

The quantity of money required to support my family in the event of my death is not affected by the odds of my death.

Whether I'm the perfect image of health or an obese, chainsmoking, binge drinker, the mortgage bill is always the same amount.

Re:FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine by handoflixue on Monday August 23, 2021 @06:28PM (#28282820)
Yeah, but if I have a 10% chance of dying to Covid and getting $0 for my family... or a 0.01% chance of dying to the vaccine and getting $250K...

Well, I feel like the latter is a much better deal, even if it's still not ideal.