News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Global deforestation peaked in the 1980s by sputknick on Tuesday August 17, 2021 @10:12AM (#28210061)
Based on the map, this looks like a problem that will be solved with money. The tropical regions are less wealthy than the temperate regions, and probably as they become more wealthy, they will urbanize and improve farming techniques, both of which require less land, which nature is then able to re-capture.
Re:Global deforestation peaked in the 1980s by rexreed on Tuesday August 17, 2021 @10:30AM (#28210242)
The article says that deforestation peaked 30-40 years ago.

"Global forest loss peaked in the 1980s – losing an area half the size of India. Since then, deforestation has slowed. In fact, many countries have now reversed the long-term trend and transitioned to a net gain of forests, reforestation."

So clearly something is working. A lot of the responses are assuming that deforestation rate of growth is continuing or even accelerating, especially the random remarks attributing deforestation to all sorts of things. The world is on a re-forestation trend, according to the article.

Re:Global deforestation peaked in the 1980s by p_j_w on Tuesday August 17, 2021 @02:41PM (#28213328)
>The world is on a re-forestation trend, according to the article.

Am I misreading something here (either your comment or the article)? My impression here is that total forested land is still decreasing, but the rate of decrease is not increasing.

Re:Global deforestation peaked in the 1980s by philwelch on Tuesday August 17, 2021 @06:55PM (#28215724)
The first derivative is still negative but the second derivative is positive.
[dead]
Re:Global deforestation peaked in the 1980s by scrollaway on Tuesday August 17, 2021 @11:59AM (#28211307)
What’s the point of such a hostile, sarcastic and off base comment, man?
[dead]
Re:Global deforestation peaked in the 1980s by rexreed on Tuesday August 17, 2021 @01:34PM (#28212560)
Ok,let's stop and think. The article is saying that the rate of deforestation stopped increasing in the 1980s, and since then we've made gains on reforestation as well as stopping the increase in deforestation rate. What exactly would you like the alternative to be? A re-increase in deforestation rates? A halt to reforestation?

Yes, wishful thinking would be that it would be nice if we didn't have all that deforestation to begin with, but here we are, reversing that trend, and somehow there's an alternative that would be better than that? What alternative to reducing the rate of deforestation and increasing reforestation is there?

Re:Global deforestation peaked in the 1980s by charbonneau on Tuesday August 17, 2021 @01:56PM (#28212824)
Neither titzer nor me suggested there was an alternative.
Re:Global deforestation peaked in the 1980s by mc32 on Tuesday August 17, 2021 @10:32AM (#28210259)
Possibly. Certainly in the US we have regained forest as marginal farmland was allowed to revert to forest or in some cases converted to forest so that now many places that are conservation land wildernesses are forested as opposed to grazing land and farmland.

On the other hand, a growing population means more demand for wood products (for building, for furniture, etc) and the alternative, plastics, are quite problematic.

Re:Global deforestation peaked in the 1980s by theandrewbailey on Tuesday August 17, 2021 @11:28AM (#28210945)
Sounds like there will be a sustained demand for wood products in the future. Maybe we can cut down some trees, and plant new ones in their stead, then repeat as necessary as the market demands.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tree_farm

Re:Global deforestation peaked in the 1980s by Sharlin on Tuesday August 17, 2021 @12:59PM (#28212111)
Unfortunately tree farms are absolutely disastrous when it comes to biodiversity, and biodiversity loss and climate change are not separate problems but deeply intertwined. You cannot solve one and ignore the other. Regular managed forest is better but not good either.
Re:Global deforestation peaked in the 1980s by paul_f on Tuesday August 17, 2021 @08:41PM (#28216479)
A tree farm is clearly better than a barren field. I am afraid you're gonna have to post some backup links to the claims you're making here
Re:Global deforestation peaked in the 1980s by Sharlin on Wednesday August 18, 2021 @12:53PM (#28223925)
The GP talked about cutting existing trees and planting tree farms in their stead, which is different from reforestation of barren fields.
Re:Global deforestation peaked in the 1980s by jankeymeulen on Tuesday August 17, 2021 @03:38PM (#28213947)
How's that? I could see climate change decreasing biodiversity for sure, but how would decreasing biodiversity lead to climate change?
Re:Global deforestation peaked in the 1980s by otikik on Tuesday August 17, 2021 @06:18PM (#28215462)
Nature is the only one capturing CO2 at the moment.

Biodiversity is what nature does. It starts with soil, then small plants, and gradually you get trees. It's very energy efficient, but it's a very slow process.

Industrial monocultives are nothing like that. It's much faster, but it works out of the paths nature has. Usually by emitting CO2 directly, which impacts climate change.

For example, the natural process of building the soil of a forest takes decades of tiny plants and animals living and pooping and dying, while artificial lumber forest soil is brought in trucks, and set in a single season, with fertilizer extracted from a mine (more CO2). The pooping and dying part releases some CO2 as well, but it cannot compare.

On top of that, cultivation tends to take land from wild forests and jungles. So that doubles the effect.

Permaculture is a way to produce food and wood products using methods that mimic what nature does. Give it a look if you are interested in these things.

Re:Global deforestation peaked in the 1980s by echelon on Tuesday August 17, 2021 @10:51AM (#28210475)
> On the other hand, a growing population means more demand for wood products

In the US, increased demand can be met with renewable sources of lumber. This has the side benefit of modest carbon sequestration.

Population growth is also slowing, which may actually pose a more serious problem for labor and innovation. Immigration helps, but it won't be enough.

In other areas of the world, the problem is one of economics, as the parent mentioned.

Re:Global deforestation peaked in the 1980s by soperj on Tuesday August 17, 2021 @11:32AM (#28210992)
>This has the side benefit of modest carbon sequestration

There is no way that pulling timber out of the forest and converting into a product actually sequesters anything. Hauling the wood out of the forest to the mill likely releases more carbon than is sequestered by the tree in its lifetime.

Re:Global deforestation peaked in the 1980s by putnambr on Tuesday August 17, 2021 @12:29PM (#28211709)
Your comment doesn't make sense. A tree growing in a tree farm, and being turned into lumber will sequester that carbon until that lumber is burned. I suppose it matters if you're talking about cutting down old growth for lumber, or using old farm land to put a tree farm on.
Re:Global deforestation peaked in the 1980s by Teknoman117 on Tuesday August 17, 2021 @12:35PM (#28211805)
Their comment is supposing that the energy costs of hauling the tree out of the forest and slicing it into boards / mulch / whatever (given our current logging technology) emits more carbon (from fuel usage and electricity generation) than the tree sequestered during it's lifetime.

This probably not true, considering that for many decades steam powered logging equipment burned wood before coal became the dominant fuel source (and thus able to cut down and process a tree with less energy than we got from a single tree), although many mills were powered by flowing water.

It's the same notion that "PV panels emit an equivalent of 50g of CO2 per kW/h (assuming a 25 year service life)". Even though the panel doesn't emit anything during operation, mining and manufacturing are still heavily reliant on fossil fuels.

The tree itself sequesters carbon, but the carbon output from using the tree is what is produced burning it + getting it ready to burn.

Re:Global deforestation peaked in the 1980s by soperj on Tuesday August 17, 2021 @06:43PM (#28215638)
Have you watched the trucks hauling logged trees down the road? They aren't exactly fuel efficient, then you haul that finished product from the mill to the lumber yard, then to the job site. The average tree sequesters 400kg of carbon in 25 years. The average commuter car will produce that in 2 weeks.
Re:Global deforestation peaked in the 1980s by poopypoopington on Tuesday August 17, 2021 @01:39PM (#28212607)
As the economy electrifies and the grid decarbonizes this will improves. Electric trucks, electric chainsaws etc. Mills are already electric I assume.
Re:Global deforestation peaked in the 1980s by sam_0123 on Tuesday August 17, 2021 @10:28AM (#28210217)
I'd worry that the improved farming techniques will not facilitate a release of land back to wild, but would simply intensify whatever acreage is already farmed + whatever new ground anyone can justify (like anywhere else I'm aware of).
Re:Global deforestation peaked in the 1980s by relax88 on Tuesday August 17, 2021 @10:33AM (#28210272)
The total land area used for agriculture has actually decreased in the last few decades in some of the richer and more developed areas.

Europe in general has seen some reforestation and is greener now than 100 years ago (though still much less green than several hundred years ago).

Re:Global deforestation peaked in the 1980s by _Algernon_ on Tuesday August 17, 2021 @11:48AM (#28211171)
Is that due to more effective farming methods or just due to importing more foods? I have the suspicion that this is a case of patting ourselves on the back similar to our reduction in CO2-emissions that are merely being exported to China.
Re:Global deforestation peaked in the 1980s by paul_f on Tuesday August 17, 2021 @08:42PM (#28216491)
Maybe you could actually go research this and let us know what you find.
Re:Global deforestation peaked in the 1980s by kavalg on Tuesday August 17, 2021 @10:30AM (#28210249)
and will produce lower quality food
Re:Global deforestation peaked in the 1980s by blobbers on Tuesday August 17, 2021 @12:55PM (#28212057)
While I wish this line of logic were true, generally as corporations improve their techniques, they try to scale up their business and are rarely content with what they have. Sad, but I think true.