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Re:AWS adds an extra 5.5M IPv4 addresses by skuhn on Saturday August 14, 2021 @02:17AM (#28178496)
I actually think that what will really drive IPv6 adoption is if the price of IPv4 space continues its upward trajectory unabated. The price has about doubled at auction in the last year.

How are those two things related?

1. There are a ton of owners sitting on inefficiently used IP space.

Any company (not doing cloud hosting or network transit) that's holding a /8 is almost certainly using it very inefficiently, but an owner like Apple will never feel financial pressure to optimize or sell their /8. However, an owner like the university I went to (with a /16 network currently worth $3 million) will eventually face internal pressure to sell that network when the value rises to say $50 million.

As another example, Yahoo is currently announcing subnets containing 4.3 million IPv4 addresses, which is worth $193.5mm at auction. If the price of IPv4 addresses increased by say 10x, their IPv4 space would probably comprise the bulk of the company's value.

2. Owners will need to adopt IPv6 in order to realize these financial gains.

In order to sell a significant portion of their IPv4 space, an owner will have to compact their IPv4 usage into a much smaller space and migrate everything else to IPv6. This will be a huge undertaking for a lot of these places, but at some point it's worth it. By doing that, IPv6 adoption increases.

There is the potential for a feedback loop to be created where demand for IPv4 drops and the prices decline and so fewer conversions are done, but I tend to believe that IPv4 pricing will remain inelastic.

So basically the invisible hand of the market may guide us to IPv6, but I highly highly doubt we will have seen the last of IPv4 even decades from now.

Re:AWS adds an extra 5.5M IPv4 addresses by goodpoint on Saturday August 14, 2021 @08:29AM (#28180122)
> what will really drive IPv6 adoption is if the price of IPv4 space continues its upward trajectory unabated

...or the opposite: large cloud providers own a lot of valuable IPv4 space. They might want to increase the value of their investment.

Encouraging switching to pure-IPv6 connectivity would be a big loss for them.

Re:AWS adds an extra 5.5M IPv4 addresses by zozbot234 on Saturday August 14, 2021 @03:07AM (#28178703)
> There are a ton of owners sitting on inefficiently used IP space.

This includes AWS, btw. You effectively get a public IPv4 with your instance, regardless of your actual needs. It actually increases your costs to get cloud instances that don't do that.

Re:AWS adds an extra 5.5M IPv4 addresses by skuhn on Saturday August 14, 2021 @03:32AM (#28178800)
AWS has that inefficiency baked in to their design, but I'm guessing that they do efficiently deploy their IPv4 space.

That is still a problem for sure, but I thinking of places doing things like giving a printer its own subnet just because they have no incentive to be efficient.

Re:AWS adds an extra 5.5M IPv4 addresses by gnrl on Saturday August 14, 2021 @09:13AM (#28180349)
You only get a public IP if you host in a public subnet. Should you deploy to a private subnet you wouldn't get a public ip
Re:AWS adds an extra 5.5M IPv4 addresses by ThatPlayer on Saturday August 14, 2021 @04:52AM (#28179166)
Another one I've heard is that CGNAT shared IPv4 addresses lead to higher hardware requirements to manage that CGNAT. So just by having IPv6 support and having more traffic go through native IPv6 saves ISPs hardware that would've been required to manage the CGNAT.

Found the video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=75h4gm7t1oI

Re:AWS adds an extra 5.5M IPv4 addresses by john2010 on Saturday August 14, 2021 @03:48AM (#28178889)
I know few universities that still use static ipv4 for computer pools. The admins claim easy for us to monitor for misuse.
Re:AWS adds an extra 5.5M IPv4 addresses by pezezin on Saturday August 14, 2021 @07:39AM (#28179862)
My company owns a /16 and everybody gets an static address for each device, so I currently "own" two global IPv4 addresses. But everything is firewalled to hell and we need to connect through a proxy, so what's the point?
Re:AWS adds an extra 5.5M IPv4 addresses by icedchai on Saturday August 14, 2021 @09:18AM (#28180373)
I own a /24, personally. It was registered in the early 90’s. I have it routed to my home network.
Re:AWS adds an extra 5.5M IPv4 addresses by rafaelm on Saturday August 14, 2021 @10:28AM (#28180911)
Out of curiosity, how much does it cost for you to run this? Not that I'm willing to pay $10k for my own /24, but I find this super interesting.

I just installed a new FTTH ISP at home and learned the hard way what CG-NAT is, after years of having my own public IP with my previous ISP.

Re:AWS adds an extra 5.5M IPv4 addresses by icedchai on Saturday August 14, 2021 @11:37AM (#28181475)
The /24 itself doesn’t cost me anything. I registered it before ARIN existed and it’s considered a “legacy” block. No fees cause I never signed their registration agreement.

I pay about $180/month for a “business internet” cable line. 300 megabits down, 25 up. I also “know a guy” at the ISP who made sure the routing wasn’t going to be an issue.

Re:AWS adds an extra 5.5M IPv4 addresses by rafaelm on Saturday August 14, 2021 @01:34PM (#28182452)
Yep, I was wondering more about the ongoing costs of "operating" the block. I was reading a superuser.com question [1] about it and it mentions ongoing costs, like transit, BGP routing etc.

This is super interesting! I didn't know this was even possible before I started looking into it.

[1]https://superuser.com/questions/323801/how-can-i-own-an-ip-a...

Re:AWS adds an extra 5.5M IPv4 addresses by Sebb767 on Saturday August 14, 2021 @03:20PM (#28183242)
When I read that right, all the transit and routing seems to be done by his ISP. The superuser response is about what happens when your provider (or in this case, ISP) does not do this.
Re:AWS adds an extra 5.5M IPv4 addresses by icedchai on Saturday August 14, 2021 @04:44PM (#28183797)
There are no direct costs there. I pay for the bandwidth. The ISP announces the /24 using their BGP ASN.

There are also cloud providers, like Vultr, that will allow you to do BGP with them. You could then get a network block routed to a VPS, then tunnel it out or whatever.

Re:AWS adds an extra 5.5M IPv4 addresses by Symbiote on Saturday August 14, 2021 @04:50AM (#28179157)
This is correct use of IP space.

With a routeable IP on every computer, no one would be a second class (consume-only) user of the Internet.

Re:AWS adds an extra 5.5M IPv4 addresses by manquer on Saturday August 14, 2021 @07:59AM (#28179961)
No corporate IT would have firewall setup to allow every computer to be routable from the internet.

So practically a globally addressable IP or not makes no impact on ability to be routable publicly

Re:AWS adds an extra 5.5M IPv4 addresses by icedchai on Saturday August 14, 2021 @09:19AM (#28180381)
In the 90’s, this set up (public IP everywhere) was very common. I remember working in a couple offices with no firewalls.
Re:AWS adds an extra 5.5M IPv4 addresses by manquer on Tuesday August 17, 2021 @06:44AM (#28208397)
90s were a different time for the internet, even till right after dot com bubble being online was relatively safe, many companies would not even have had dedicated InfoSec teams, no audits and compliance processes were covering firewalls etc

I maybe biased, I grew up in the 90's so I dont' really know how it was before, I do hear people reminisce about days before eternal September and bb groups and the good old 80's so perhaps it is always been a downward gradient as more and more people came online.