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Re:The racial performance gap explained by AndrewDucker on Thursday July 28, 2011 @11:19AM (#2817168)
So the basic difference is that the Chinese students worked longer, and in cohesive teams?

I wonder what it was about the culture they came from that encouraged that.

Re:The racial performance gap explained by Duff on Thursday July 28, 2011 @11:34AM (#2817269)
Or cheated.

I went to a mid-tier public college. Certain cliques of asian students with no ability to communicate verbally in English were somehow able to produce amazing criticisms of 19th century english poetry.

It's difficult not to draw a parallel between people like that and the fraternity people (who were incapable of communicating in English for other reasons) who achieved similar feats.

Re:The racial performance gap explained by msie on Thursday July 28, 2011 @01:45PM (#2817979)
I've seen people who were better at written communication in English than verbal communication. It was easier to both understand them and have them understand me.

I think everyone would be at the same disadvantage, regardless of English competency, when it comes to 19th century English poetry. ;-)

Re:The racial performance gap explained by thesz on Friday July 29, 2011 @08:06AM (#2821323)
As a self-taught English reader (recently listener and rarely speaker) I should note that understanding sound and rhythm of English poetry taught me so much.

I was able to semi-decently communicate technical things before I come to Shakespeare's "To be or not to be". It completely changed my view on English language. Before that I was reading English prose as a deformed version of Deutsch (language I learned at school). What worked for technical prose stopped working for verses. I had to dig deeper.

From my experience I think that someone who barely speaks foreign language cannot have an adequate opinion on that language verses.

And I think that GP is right about cheating.

Re:The racial performance gap explained by msie on Thursday July 28, 2011 @02:02PM (#2818075)
The testing would have caught anyone who didn't know the material. Yes, they learned as a group and corrected each others homework, but they also put in lots of individual hours.
Re:The racial performance gap explained by Hyena on Thursday July 28, 2011 @11:10PM (#2819998)
I knew several Asian students who did this, even in the engineering department it was rampant.
Re:The racial performance gap explained by hugh3 on Thursday July 28, 2011 @02:23PM (#2818196)
I wonder what it was about the culture they came from that encouraged that.

Unfortunately I think that the weakness in Western culture here is the same as its fundamental strength -- anti-authoritarianism. For white students (and to an even greater extent black students), it's not cool to study hard because that's what authority figures like teachers and parents want you to do.

I'm not sure what can be done about this. I doubt it would work just for teachers and parents to pretend they don't want the kids to work hard in the hope that they will.

Part of the solution, I think, is to provide pointless and arbitrarily rules for the kids to rebel against harmlessly. At my school, the teachers were very keen on making sure we had our shirts tucked in, and I never understood why, but now I understand that these sorts of pointless rules provide an opportunity for kids to rebel against something without actually engaging in any destructive or dangerous behaviour.

Re:The racial performance gap explained by kenjackson on Thursday July 28, 2011 @12:10PM (#2817474)
When I was in college I do recall there being a stigma associated with "studying too much" among Black students. It wasn't that they didn't study, but too much time talking about academics was frowned upon -- and it was very non-competitive. With my Asian friends it was quite the opposite. Not only was it common to spend a lot of time in study groups, there was a fair bit of grade competition. It was friendly competition (at least from the exterior), but there was definitely a level of grade competition that I didn't see among Blacks (or Whites for that matter).

I think its great to point out these studies. Make them part of the HS curricula to learn about them. But at the end of the day I think each of us needs to make our own decision about our path forward.

Myself, I was a pretty good student. And I partied some, but looking back a little more partying probably wouldn't have killed me.

Re:The racial performance gap explained by billswift on Thursday July 28, 2011 @12:58PM (#2817728)
In Thomas Sowell's A Personal Odyssey, he recorded an exchange with a black student (p.223):

"I just don't understand it, Dr, Sowell," he said. "The Jewish students do twice as well as we do."

"Only twice as well?" I said. "When they work three times as hard? What I can't understand is how you fellows do as well as you do, with no more effort than you put into it."

Earlier in the book, he talks about how he nearly flunked out of Harvard during his first semester there because he was working like he had at Howard and it wasn't enough. (pp.118-9)

Re:The racial performance gap explained by msie on Thursday July 28, 2011 @03:12PM (#2818442)
I wonder what it was about the culture they came from that encouraged that.

I wonder if all foreign students struggling with English exhibit the same behaviour. I say this because such students would find it hard to fit in and participate in other campus activities. They would probably be concentrating on their studies.

Re:The racial performance gap explained by canistr on Thursday July 28, 2011 @11:27AM (#2817221)
It's interesting that this is occurring in an academic environment.

Yet in athletics, China (or perhaps most Asian countries) tend not to perform as well in team events compared to Western nations.

Re:The racial performance gap explained by jamesteow on Thursday July 28, 2011 @03:10PM (#2818432)
Lots of these team sports require development leagues. And then decades of improvement.
Re:The racial performance gap explained by yoshyosh on Thursday July 28, 2011 @01:29PM (#2817889)
I would imagine that their builds have something to do with it when it comes to certain sports, however, they excel tremendously in others. Baseball comes to mind with Japan being regarded as the #1 competitor each year in the world cup and Korea also being known as strong top 4 candidate. These could be outliers, but they present a case for Asian countries being able to compete on equal footing in team events.
Re:The racial performance gap explained by canistr on Thursday July 28, 2011 @01:31PM (#2817903)
That is a good point. Not to say that there isn't teamwork involved, but I would argue that baseball is slightly different in that there is a higher emphasis on individual skill than on teamwork. The better counter-argument would perhaps be the Chinese women's volleyball team that won Gold Medal in the Olympics (can't remember which Olympics, but they won it)