News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Who Is Being Monitored? by wolverine876 on Thursday August 12, 2021 @09:49AM (#28156317)
These sound like common blacklist-style defenses. As examples, mail services use RBLs to prevent spam, Cloudflare services often require captchas from Tor exit node IP addresses, many websites decline signups from throwaway email addresses like Mailinator. Credit card companies use various indicators to prevent fraud.

I'm not saying these measures are perfect or fair, but they are not related to government (though government may also use them); they are just obvious ways to prevent unwanted activity such as spam, fraud, hacking attacks, etc.

> Their AI determined that people using particular email providers need to be watched

How do you know that government has concluded 'particular providers need to be watched', and that the decision was performed by an AI?

> for using a privacy focused email address when signing up for services operated by a government entity

How do you know the cause?

Re:Who Is Being Monitored? by iliketosleep on Thursday August 12, 2021 @11:42AM (#28157727)
The type of monitoring used was disclosed as was the "likely cause" of me being flagged. This wasn't a secretive kind of thing. Of course one can't "know" anything as it's a black-box. But it's not a stretch to see how such systems may conclude, from automated profiling, that users of privacy-centric services are more likely to be associated with fraud and hence flagged. This also represents a more general issue with the application of machine learning.
Re:Who Is Being Monitored? by trutannus on Thursday August 12, 2021 @12:06PM (#28158007)
You're basically saying that you've been caught up in some surveillance dragnet/watch list, and that you have no proof but think it is for for using ProtonMail on a government website.

When your payment was declined, the company 1) had access to this watch list that you're on, 2) was able to share with you that you were on a watch list, and 3) you were able to figure out why this is. This sounds very unbelievable to me. The data that comes from programs like this isn't generally being passed around to businesses, and if it is, the support folks are not going to be in the know.

It still sounds more like you're being hit by algorithmic blacklisting than that you're on some secret not-secret blacklist. That, or you got added to a public sector blacklist, by some security company because you use ProtonMail which has issues with abuse by fraudsters.

Re:Who Is Being Monitored? by iliketosleep on Thursday August 12, 2021 @12:15PM (#28158122)
No, you've misconstrued what I've said. I am not implying that the payment being declined by a merchant is anything related to the government. Nor am I implying that the government shared my information with any company. Nor I am on any kind of blacklist (at least that I'm aware of). Read my original post, they are two separate issues.
Re:Who Is Being Monitored? by trutannus on Thursday August 12, 2021 @12:28PM (#28158309)
> The type of monitoring used was disclosed as was the "likely cause" of me being flagged

You're correct, I misremembered how you wrote that. Unfortunately, that makes it even less believable. How did you find out that you were being monitored, and why was that disclosed to you? Who disclosed this monitoring to you? Did you run some sort of FOIA request (whatever your nation's version is)? You're making a very big claim with very little to substantiate. Keep in mind ProtonMail has over 50 million users, It beggars belief that using PM is sufficient to get yourself monitored in any serious capacity.

Re:Who Is Being Monitored? by fnord77 on Thursday August 12, 2021 @10:35AM (#28156844)
all this nonsense would go away if we had some sort of universal identification system on the internet.

people act like anonymity is some kind of right, but it really wasn't in the past. You needed to prove who you are to get a loan, drivers license, etc.

Re:Who Is Being Monitored? by gyam on Thursday August 12, 2021 @11:06AM (#28157243)
Anonymity is the default, we don’t walk around with our names and all our interests and thoughts attached to a label to be read by anyone. If anything, internet made it go away. Eg. even if you knew a person’s name you wouldn’t be able to look up other information about them before, now you can. Previously, you’d be able to go to a store and buy a thing without giving any information, now you have to give the “email” that collects most information about you. Your examples of loan, licence etc are not like 99% of interactions, and those can be handled as special cases like before.
Re:Who Is Being Monitored? by visualradio on Thursday August 12, 2021 @11:54AM (#28157857)
> Previously, you’d be able to go to a store and buy a thing without giving any information

We can still do that, it's called paying with cash. Paper money is the people's money.

> Your examples of loan, licence etc are not like 99% of interactions, and those can be handled as special cases like before

With regards to loans, it is possible for state governments to establish regional public land loan offices to issue equity loans in reference to the production and replacement cost of existent tangible personal property fixed or held on site without monitoring all of the purchases of movable personal property by the borrower to determine credit-worthiness. The borrower just has to prove there is some tangible artifact of personal property which exists, which the loan office can auction if the debt goes bad or write off if the artifact is destroyed.

We just have to mandate the loan offices don't do something stupid, like issue loans against the excess value of real estate attributable land scarcity and resell mortgages to private investors which will resell derivatives, to avoid generating a real estate bubble and the accumulation of $100+ trillion in derivatives. Additionally we'd probably need to replace many regressive taxes with distributive land taxes to ensure that households and cooperatives had cheaper access to land in order to obtain a deed or long term lease granting the security for spatially fixed personal property necessary to qualify for such loans.

Re:Who Is Being Monitored? by fnord77 on Thursday August 12, 2021 @10:55PM (#28164872)
for most of human history, people knew the names and interests of people around them

anonymity is a recent thing

Re:Who Is Being Monitored? by sidewndr46 on Thursday August 12, 2021 @11:00AM (#28157159)
I don't know where you live, but at least in North America the requirements for a loan are laughably low. I once was interested in getting a vehicle loan on a new vehicle purchase. I gave the financial guy all my information and he showed me the terms. I agreed to them and bought the vehicle.

I have no idea how, but he issued me a loan on that vehicle using incorrect information for basically everything except my address. Name, birthday, etc. did not match. Somehow the system had a completely different set of records. When I called the lender about it, they didn't even seem surprised. Just took a phone call to get everything corrected and a new set of paperwork mailed out to me.

Re:Who Is Being Monitored? by the_other on Thursday August 12, 2021 @10:56AM (#28157106)
It is and should be a right for a lot of things.

I imagine few people doubt the practicality of trust in a transaction or application as you mention.

But we should be able to sit in a cafe and discuss our plans for cultural subversion and last night's sports event without the *till* shopping us out to the thought police.

Re:Who Is Being Monitored? by wolverine876 on Thursday August 12, 2021 @10:47AM (#28157001)
Can you see downsides to that? How do you address it?

I think it's not that anonymity is a right, it's that other rights are strongly impacted by the lack of anonymity.

Re:Who Is Being Monitored? by someguyorother on Thursday August 12, 2021 @12:03PM (#28157966)
Just make it zero-knowledge. You use the ID server to prove that you're not a sock puppet of someone already registered, but that's all the site needs to know.
Re:Who Is Being Monitored? by loriverkutya on Thursday August 12, 2021 @11:56AM (#28157888)
> people act like anonymity is some kind of right, but it really wasn't in the past

it was for tens of thousands of years in the past

Re:Who Is Being Monitored? by wolverine876 on Thursday August 12, 2021 @12:45PM (#28158537)
> it was for tens of thousands of years in the past

I wonder: Few people traveled and communities were smaller, so generally everyone knew you.

Re:Who Is Being Monitored? by FridayoLeary on Thursday August 12, 2021 @10:52AM (#28157067)
what's your name then?
Re:Who Is Being Monitored? by conjectures on Thursday August 12, 2021 @12:15PM (#28158125)
User called fnord posts bait ideas, yeah I'm not biting.
Re:Who Is Being Monitored? by Hyolobrika on Thursday August 12, 2021 @10:42AM (#28156917)
What about whistleblowers?