If it was just getting taxed up to a point I think you'd have a reasonable argument, but looking at the torturous nonsense they have to go through to the point where even US banks think the costs of having them as clients isn't worth the hassle, it's clearly way beyond that. Also, many of these people don't actually owe any tax at all, or relatively small amounts, but it's ridiculously difficult and costly to prove it.

I mean what is the objective? Raise tax revenue from ex-pats, or drive them out of US citizenship? What's actually happening seems to be the latter, not so much the former. Surely that's a serious policy failure.

After not living in the US for a few years, your view of the US is quite disillusioned. They don’t want you to come back and live there. The need to keep everyone thinking the US is the best. /s

The thing is, many of these expats aren't even "paying into the system" anyway. I have to file US taxes but can deduct what I pay in taxes in my country of residency, which is higher than I'd pay in the US; as a result, I don't actually owe any US taxes. But, like another commenter said, I have to pay thousands to someone to figure out how to even file all this stuff. In other words, some local accountant is making bank, not the IRS.

I could probably be convinced to get on board with an initiative to make filing easier, but this is a different argument than I was responding to.

From what I’ve read, the US is possibly one of the worst countries to have to file taxes with, paperwork-wise.

And that’s for the simple scenario of someone actually living in the US.

But is also is another issue altogether. How US citizens can bear with this and the lobbying that spawned it is beyond me.

The people who have complicated taxes also usually have complex income sources and generally higher incomes. If you just get your wage the tax forms are relatively straightforward. Being international complicates things but you'll notice people are talking about the headaches associated with running their businesses, capital gains, etc.

It doesn’t take much for an American residing abroad to have complicated taxes. I work a salaried job and am trying to save for retirement and that puts me into the complicated bracket because of the rules on pension taxation in my country of residence vs the US. Our options for investment are very limited, compared to every other resident of the country. My local brewery was doing a grassroots investment campaign and I couldn’t even buy £20 worth of shares to support them because as a US person that was forbidden.

Yeah, while you could argue that the IRS should do pre-filled electronic returns, the reality is that if you have a W2 and a couple 1099s, doing your taxes is pretty straightfoward.

As you say, it's more complex income sources and potentially deductions that lead to big accountant bills.

Or simply the fact of living overseas.

And you mention 1099s, i.e. self employed. Well, if you run a sole proprietorship as an expat, you still have to file US self-employment tax forms, and there are also QUARTERLY filing requirements with penalties for non-filing.

Or you need to get the paper certifying that your country has a totalization agreement with the US (not all do).

And since 1099 isn't a thing in EU, you have to file the US 'small business' tax form, which is actually 3-5 forms.

so as an expat, even what should be very straight forward turns into a massive mess.

Sure. Yes, I was assuming a US citizen/resident working for an employer who has income from a few basic sources and is taking standard deduction--which actually describes a lot of people. (And I was mentioning 1099s mostly in the context of a brokerage account.)

Well, I am glad to stand corrected.

Most of my knowledge of it comes from all the threads about Intuit's and H&R Block's lobbying regarding what IRS could and could not do to simplify tax filling.

If you don’t me asking. If it is as straightforward, what actually is the point in said lobbying?

Many people don't realize it's straightforward to fill out a 1040 form and assume they need to buy specialty software or go to a tax preparation place like H&R Block. Naturally they're not going to tell them otherwise.

Serious question, what benefits do you think US citizenship and US embassies provide over and beyond what pretty much every other western country provides to their citizens?