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Re:Employee shortages: Where have all the workers gone? by BossingAround on Saturday July 31, 2021 @07:49AM (#28017273)
Might also be an attitude problem on your side. If you're serious about getting a job, consider coaching.

This "nobody is hiring, everything sucks, and I'm the victim here" narrative isn't really helping you.

Also, bringing up stuff like "lies about the cough" (which I assume is OP talking about COVID) absolutely undermines your credibility as an individual capable of critical thinking, which is necessary for software engineering.

Re:Employee shortages: Where have all the workers gone? by matwood on Saturday July 31, 2021 @08:51AM (#28017660)
> Might also be an attitude problem on your side.

I don't know about the OP, but I think sometimes people forget that getting hired is only part skill list match. The other part is likability. I've worked with enough smart assholes to never want to do that again if I can avoid it. I also frequently reflect to make sure I'm not being an asshole.

Re:Employee shortages: Where have all the workers gone? by TheAdamAndChe on Saturday July 31, 2021 @11:41AM (#28019102)
Being able to be picky about employees is the opposite of a labor shortage.
Re:Employee shortages: Where have all the workers gone? by TheAdamAndChe on Saturday July 31, 2021 @08:20AM (#28017449)
You've got cause and effect flipped here. It's not the bitterness that causes one to be not hired, its not being hired that causes bitterness. I experienced the same when trying to get in the field. The narrative at the time was that there was a labor shortage, and they were trying to push for more H1B visa holders. Yet there were very very few entry level positions, nobody was training, and the company that hired me paid horribly($12/hr) and didn't teach me anything. Keep in mind, I had recently graduated from university in the field.

For decades, employers had far more leverage than employees. Now that that's eroded a bit, everyone is panicking. But this is exactly what is needed to employers to actually train and care about their workers.

Re:Employee shortages: Where have all the workers gone? by the-dude on Saturday July 31, 2021 @08:33AM (#28017533)
> The narrative at the time was that there was a labor shortage

Not unique to the particular time or place : Dutch employers are complaining about a lack of technical workers for decades, think welders / metal workers / machine operators etc.

Except they pay sh*t. Somehow the statement about the lack of workers gets printed in the media everytime.

Now we have the 'free transfer of people' in the EU. The EU is not there for you, but for the employers ( just like HR ).

Re:Employee shortages: Where have all the workers gone? by fallenspec on Saturday July 31, 2021 @07:03PM (#28022208)
When I got out of university I was doing a web dev job that paid me less than a full time super market job in the UK.

However after a year of working there I quickly moved on and got a big pay rise in doing so.

Re:Employee shortages: Where have all the workers gone? by jason0597 on Monday August 02, 2021 @03:56PM (#28041811)
I think this is something that every university graduate needs to understand so as to not be bitter.

Your first years of your career will be shit, there is just no beating around the bush around this fact. You will be treated like a kid, you will be paid like shit (borderline minimum wage a lot of the times), and you will have to work ridiculous amounts to be seen on the same level as other people in the field.

Once you break the 1-2 year experience mark then you can begin to expect entry level benefits for entry level positions. After you break the 5 year experience mark, then really the world is your oyster. 10 years or more and you can demand blank checks.

Re:Employee shortages: Where have all the workers gone? by nate_meurer on Saturday July 31, 2021 @02:05PM (#28020320)
> It's not the bitterness that causes one to be not hired, its not being hired that causes bitterness.

That's a pretty absolutist statement. Is it not possible that both are sometimes present, and lead to a downward spiral of poor attitude and unemployablility?

Re:Employee shortages: Where have all the workers gone? by MichaelMoser123 on Saturday July 31, 2021 @09:32AM (#28017979)
I don't know. I am fifty one years old, last year I was sent packing. I found that it is increasingly more difficult for me to find a new job as a programmer, as the years go by. I am very grateful that I found a job, eventually.

Dear Calltrack, don't get too upset by the reactions in this thread, some people here are, well, not very compassionate, to say the least.

Re:Employee shortages: Where have all the workers gone? by fishmaster on Saturday July 31, 2021 @01:25PM (#28020005)
It's not about 'compassion', it's about denying the Covid pandemic being real and calling it 'the cough'.
Re:Employee shortages: Where have all the workers gone? by jokethrowaway on Saturday July 31, 2021 @08:40AM (#28017582)
Sure tech companies generally are generally on your political side and not on his but he's most likely not getting hired because of ageism and because people don't really need people with tons of experience. A kid with some basic knowledge who will comply to whatever bs is being told is good enough. Plus they can easily convince him to care about the company, do overtime, etc. Good luck trying that crap with a 50yo.
Re:Employee shortages: Where have all the workers gone? by ajb on Saturday July 31, 2021 @11:26AM (#28018946)
Would you rather , on this site, people post what they honestly think, or what they would say in a job interview situation? Because if the latter, you might be better off not assuming that the OP is dumb enough to let out their unvarnished thoughts in an interview.
Re:Employee shortages: Where have all the workers gone? by nate_meurer on Saturday July 31, 2021 @02:10PM (#28020377)
> you might be better off not assuming that the OP is dumb enough to let out their unvarnished thoughts in an interview.

After a glance at Calltrak's recent comment history, I think that might actually be an ok assumption.

Re:Employee shortages: Where have all the workers gone? by m0llusk on Saturday July 31, 2021 @09:12AM (#28017818)
This sounds like a complete misunderstanding of the situation. In a thread about employers having trouble with hiring someone posted their honest frustrations as a potential employee looking for work. It is extremely unlikely that any cover letter, resume, or job interview is in any way similar because that context is completely different.

Just to pick one common idea among recruiters, it often takes about a month of job seeking per year of experience to get a position that is a solid match. That means that the people posting here with decades of experience can expect years of leetcode interviews before getting hired. Recruiters seem like a better source of information than currently employed and in demand coders.

Re:Employee shortages: Where have all the workers gone? by cactus2093 on Saturday July 31, 2021 @09:27AM (#28017944)
These aren’t honest frustrations, lol, this person basically called covid a hoax and said all the official labor numbers are made up.

And idk what recruiters say this about experience but that’s not even a claim that could be substantiated. What even is a “solid match”? Sure, if you have crazy specific requirements to be willing to take a job it will take you longer to search. That applies regardless of age. Maybe on average older candidates tend to me more rigid in their expectations and are less open to working with new industries or programming languages or something, but that’s their choice.

Re:Employee shortages: Where have all the workers gone? by crispyambulance on Saturday July 31, 2021 @11:38AM (#28019065)
The guy is frustrated and people say things like that when they're frustrated, it's understandable, though he certainly isn't helping himself by expressing such thoughts.

The "lies" he's talking about, I think, are a side-effect of the dichotomy of having an investor class that is doing better than ever and a working class that's in a downward spiral. Sadly, economic performance is measured strictly for the benefit of the investor class. So yeah, when someone who's involuntarily unemployed sees booming market numbers and talking heads on TV are calling out an economy that's "bounced back", it looks like a lie (and honestly I believe it is a kind of lie too).

Re:Employee shortages: Where have all the workers gone? by MeinBlutIstBlau on Saturday July 31, 2021 @09:18AM (#28017868)
The media downplayed covid until some places started closing. Then they kicked it into full on "zombie virus everyone is gonna die" mode real quick. On top of that, they (meaning social media as well) tried to circumvent the CDC numerous times by flagging things they've said because the media doesn't want COVID to die now that Trump is out of office. Trump was a damn goldmine and they're trying to force COVID to be another one.
[dead]
Re:Employee shortages: Where have all the workers gone? by SonOfKyuss on Saturday July 31, 2021 @09:42AM (#28018059)
It’s more about believing unfounded conspiracy theories over mountains of evidence regardless of the source.
Re:Employee shortages: Where have all the workers gone? by beerandt on Saturday July 31, 2021 @08:16PM (#28022585)
Not all lies are conspiracy theories. And not all conspiracy theories are lies.

It wasn't too long ago that mentioning a lab leak got you the boot.

Re:Employee shortages: Where have all the workers gone? by op00to on Saturday July 31, 2021 @08:27AM (#28017502)
This guy wouldn’t make it past a first phone screen with that attitude thank goodness.
Re:Employee shortages: Where have all the workers gone? by umanwizard on Saturday July 31, 2021 @08:14AM (#28017412)
It’s true though, the media has massively distorted the truth about covid over and over since the beginning.

For the most recent egregious example, see this exchange: https://mobile.twitter.com/NateSilver538/status/142122951874...

Re:Employee shortages: Where have all the workers gone? by BossingAround on Saturday July 31, 2021 @08:42AM (#28017591)
OP's statement leads straight to "they're out to get me," which is absolutely not helpful, and it's absolutely an indicator of a difficult hire.

If I'm interviewing someone and the person is demonstrating a victim narrative, that is a huge red flag.

Similarly, the inability to see shades of gray (e.g. "using MySQL is always utterly stupid, you should never use it in favor of Postgres") which OP demonstrates with their COVID statements, makes a person virtually non-employable in my book.

Re:Employee shortages: Where have all the workers gone? by fallenspec on Saturday July 31, 2021 @08:56AM (#28017696)
> OP's statement leads straight to "they're out to get me," which is absolutely not helpful, and it's absolutely an indicator of a difficult hire.

Not at all. If you've been out of work for a year and seeing your savings (if you have any) dwindle and vent on what is an internet comment sections, doesn't indicate how you are in person at all.

> If I'm interviewing someone and the person is demonstrating a victim narrative, that is a huge red flag.

You are ignoring the present situation entirely. Governments have put everyone's life on hold for well over a year now (we are in month 17). Statements from authorities have been contradictory, non-sensical, they have lied in some cases and some have broken their own lockdown rules (e.g. in the UK Matt Hancock which was in charge of public health IIRC was exposed as having an affair during COVID, which BTW was illegal under the lockdown rules).

So many people can see it for what it is. One rule for them and one rule for the plebs.

> Similarly, the inability to see shades of gray (e.g. "using MySQL is always utterly stupid, you should never use it in favor of Postgres") which OP demonstrates with their COVID statements, makes a person virtually non-employable in my book

You are reading far too much into comments around COVID due to your personal bias (which btw is obvious here). Because you disagree on a particular issue doesn't not indicate someone's thinking in a different field of expertise. e.g. there are many great scientists that believe very deeply in Religion. Which as a non-believer I would think would be at odds with one another.

I have personally found it very difficult to find a job during COVID as well. I am almost 40 now and it worries me that I might experience the same in the future.

Re:Employee shortages: Where have all the workers gone? by heurisko on Saturday July 31, 2021 @11:14AM (#28018824)
In addition to Matt Hancock, there was also the case of exemptions from quarantine for UEFA football VIPs. [1]

I think it's right the UK is returning to personal responsibility, especially as many of the rules haven't seemed to be science-based e.g. you must wear a mask entering a pub, but you are allowed to remove the mask while eating seated.

It's health-theatre, rather than virus prevention.

[1] https://www.theguardian.com/football/2021/jun/18/vips-to-be-...

Re:Employee shortages: Where have all the workers gone? by fallenspec on Saturday July 31, 2021 @01:09PM (#28019869)
There were many notable people who were exposed as to exposing that we all should be lockdown while breaking the rules themselves. It is quite frustrating when I live in an area where almost everyone followed the rules.

Yes there is a quite an element to theatre to the whole thing, which makes sensible discussion about the issue impossible. Which I believe is somewhat by design.

Re:Employee shortages: Where have all the workers gone? by nate_meurer on Saturday July 31, 2021 @02:12PM (#28020390)
> Which I believe is somewhat by design.

That's a really interesting thought that had never occurred to me. Maybe somewhat akin to Steve Bannon's "flood the zone with shit" strategy.

Re:Employee shortages: Where have all the workers gone? by fallenspec on Saturday July 31, 2021 @04:58PM (#28021509)
There is a short by Adam Curtis called "Oh Dear". You may have seen it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcy8uLjRHPM

The basic takeaway is that you make it impossible for the average person to keep up the thread of events and they become apathetic to it. I've also watched Adam Curtis's "Hypernormalisation". It is well worth a watch.

Re:Employee shortages: Where have all the workers gone? by nate_meurer on Sunday August 01, 2021 @12:07PM (#28027316)
Fantastic, thank you.
Re:Employee shortages: Where have all the workers gone? by iodfuse on Saturday July 31, 2021 @07:14PM (#28022256)
>there are many great scientists that believe very deeply in Religion. Which as a non-believer I would think would be at odds with one another.

And you would be right, we definitely shouldn't trust religious people to do science, of all things.

Re:Employee shortages: Where have all the workers gone? by fallenspec on Saturday July 31, 2021 @07:41PM (#28022411)
The fact was that I wasn't right. They were doing decent work and their beliefs didn't affect their work.

A lot of non-believers (in the past I would have include myself in that list) seem to believe because they don't believe in a higher being that they are somehow more "rational". Nothing could be further from the truth. It took me a long time to realise that I wasn't being more rational than the faithful and I dogmatic about things that were simply quasi-religious. It took a lot of introspection and several times I had moments where my ideology hit reality hard and I spent several days dealing with cognitive dissonance and having to accept I was just wrong.

Re:Employee shortages: Where have all the workers gone? by pb7 on Sunday August 01, 2021 @12:03PM (#28027277)
Believing in something that lacks any evidence is textbook irrationality. It is also at odds with science.
Re:Employee shortages: Where have all the workers gone? by umanwizard on Monday August 02, 2021 @09:50AM (#28036468)
Indeed, but I think that was the point. It's entirely possible to hold irrational beliefs in one area without them affecting your work in another area.

Whether you think it's at odds or not, in practice many great scientists have been devoutly religious. For example Newton.

Re:Employee shortages: Where have all the workers gone? by loopz on Saturday July 31, 2021 @09:24AM (#28017924)
After some searching I found both old recommendations, and new ones about this explicitly [0].

The problem here is that nobody knows for sure, and someone must decide based on precautions and ongoing research. It is expected that new knowledge will make old information obsolete. An ongoing situation will also change during its course. Media just reflects this and there's no expectations of perfection.

It's on what basis opinions are formed that truly matter. Anyone can make thousands of bets and congratulate themselves on 50% of them.

[0] https://news.yahoo.com/cdc-says-fully-vaccinated-people-2015...

Re:Employee shortages: Where have all the workers gone? by peakaboo on Saturday July 31, 2021 @08:27AM (#28017501)
People started noticing during covid but it's been going on for a very long time. I think it's awesome to see so many people realize this now though. We need that to happen.