Re:India's Leading Export: CEOs
by wisty on Monday July 25, 2011 @04:47AM
(#2801845)
It spends a lot of time talking about the Indian's ability to cut through red tape, compared to the Chinese use of "connections", but only brings up "English" twice, and not as the decisive factor. I think it really plays down the importance of English skills.
I'd expect Brazilians to also do quite well, as they tend to have pretty good English.
Re:India's Leading Export: CEOs
by rluhar on Monday July 25, 2011 @04:22AM
(#2801807)
I don't think it is quite the right comparison. I think most Indians who end up being CEO (or senior executives) in companies have had some sort of post graduate education abroad, or they have work experience starting in a multi national corporation in India.
For excellence in sports, particularly at the olympic level, you need training facilities, budgets and infrastructure in the country. You will find that India is sorely looking in these!
I do not see what the ethnicity of these people has to do with their success. I think more credit should be due to the organisations who hired and supported them up the career ladder.
Re:India's Leading Export: CEOs
by rluhar on Monday July 25, 2011 @05:01AM
(#2801873)
No, not really true at all. The Sikhs and Malyalees are rather large communities, with large diasporas as well. I think "highhandedness" is too much of a generalisation (?) for such a large and diverse group of people!
Re:India's Leading Export: CEOs
by minimumprofit on Monday July 25, 2011 @10:08AM
(#2802655)
You will find that the Sikh and the Malayalis (colloquially, Mallus) were one of the earliest communities to emigrate from India. They've had the time to build a local base in a foriegn country and hence might seem like a difficult group for other Indians to break in to.
Re:India's Leading Export: CEOs
by rjvir on Monday July 25, 2011 @04:16AM
(#2801796)
The article states that aside from Americans, there are more Indian CEOs than any other nationality - even Canadian and Chinese, which presumably have a higher population in America than Indians do.
Although statistically, Indians should have a few smart people anyways, the number of CEOs the nation exports is disproportionately high in comparison to other countries.
Re:India's Leading Export: CEOs
by deepGem on Monday July 25, 2011 @06:40AM
(#2802096)
Well, "Few very smart people" does not really correlate to 13 CEOs of the top Fortune companies.
Also, how is population related to this ? Europe also has a population of about 850 million - how many CEOs has Europe produced ? I mention Europe because it's the closest in comparison to India in terms of population diversity.
Re:India's Leading Export: CEOs
by johnx123-up on Monday July 25, 2011 @04:24AM
(#2801810)
OT: From where these "fortune" companies take big projects? I have seen many Indian freelancers bid as low as $50 for 1-week worth projects. (We have used http://www.cssilize.com/ that charges as low as $35)
Re:India's Leading Export: CEOs
by patio11 on Monday July 25, 2011 @04:57AM
(#2801864)
They go to a few big outsourcing suppliers: Infosys, Tata, etc. These do work roughly equivalent (in character, at any rate) to the consulting arms of large American business process/tech companies, such as an IBM, Oracle, or what have you.
Fortune 500 companies are not in the market for $50 a week labor from individuals. (They may well be hiring it, somewhere down the food chain, but it will be balled up with 800 similarly situated individuals for a $XX million a year contract.)
Re:India's Leading Export: CEOs
by johnx123-up on Monday July 25, 2011 @05:09AM
(#2801889)
If you have fair amount of knowledge, can you please elaborate on this? What makes these large American companies to pay in millions when they can hire freelancers in few dollars? Any lobby involved?
Re:India's Leading Export: CEOs
by patio11 on Monday July 25, 2011 @05:28AM
(#2801929)
Let's say I'm a major American bank and I want a complete payroll system done, for internal use. This is going to cost me a couple million on the low side.
Why don't I do it with a $50 a week freelancer?
1) I don't trust him, at all. If he could implement payroll systems, why isn't he charging millions of dollars? He's probably copy/pasting "Yes no problem sir I will implement your system to the specified requirements" to 30 jobs a day and looking for a sucker.
2) Who is going to manage him? Me? If I have to manage him, he doesn't cost $50 a week, he costs ~$8,050 a week, because I'm the VP of a major bank unit. Talking to poor people is always a bad use of my time, because it competes with talking to rich people. (This is somewhat exaggerated but not false.)
3) Payroll systems are not a one-man job. After you get to team sizes of 20+, it really helps to have a system for recruiting/managing/etc them, so that you don't have to. I mean, at 20+, someone is statistically going to be getting married or quitting or dying every year. Do I want to deal with that? No. Let their boss deal with it.
4) If I pay an Indian freelancer $50 a week to make my payroll system, and the payroll system fails to ship on-time, I will lose my job because I did something which was freaking insane. There are things which, in American business, are insane, and there are things which are Known To Be Not Insane. Paying large, established technology consultancies millions of dollars is Known To Be Not Insane. Even if the project fails, it is not your fault, it is their fault. If the $50 a week Indian turns out to not be God's gift to programming, hiring him was definitely your fault.
It gets more complicated, but this hits some of the high notes.
Re:India's Leading Export: CEOs
by statictype on Monday July 25, 2011 @07:16AM
(#2802168)
I think point (2) is the most important of those.
When the Fortune 500 outsources to one of the bigger outsourcing firms like those you mentioned, they're outsourcing the whole process of developing software from requirements gathering to testing and the final output is not just working software, but a full trail of documentation for accountability.
Re:India's Leading Export: CEOs
by handzhiev on Monday July 25, 2011 @05:26AM
(#2801924)
Most of these guys are beginners and don't really do the job well. There are some exceptions, but most simply do not delivered. I have hired few freelances on vWorkers and only 1 of the cheap was good. With the others I spent lots of time fixing what they did. So you get what you pay for.
Of course don't forget the cost of living is cheaper there so even the good ones can work for lower payment than in US.
Re:India's Leading Export: CEOs
by pontiacred on Monday July 25, 2011 @03:44AM
(#2801740)
As a turbaned Sikh, it's encouraging to see Ajay Banga as the CEO of MasterCard. That being said I'd really like some elaboration on what they mean when they say Indian CEOs show a level of business ethics not seen in the west. It's based off a study done by Haygroup but they don't provide a link to the study or how it was carried out.
The bottom line is these people speak English and are perceived to be able to bridge the gap between the East and West.
I'd expect Brazilians to also do quite well, as they tend to have pretty good English.
For excellence in sports, particularly at the olympic level, you need training facilities, budgets and infrastructure in the country. You will find that India is sorely looking in these!
I do not see what the ethnicity of these people has to do with their success. I think more credit should be due to the organisations who hired and supported them up the career ladder.
Although statistically, Indians should have a few smart people anyways, the number of CEOs the nation exports is disproportionately high in comparison to other countries.
Also, how is population related to this ? Europe also has a population of about 850 million - how many CEOs has Europe produced ? I mention Europe because it's the closest in comparison to India in terms of population diversity.
Fortune 500 companies are not in the market for $50 a week labor from individuals. (They may well be hiring it, somewhere down the food chain, but it will be balled up with 800 similarly situated individuals for a $XX million a year contract.)
Why don't I do it with a $50 a week freelancer?
1) I don't trust him, at all. If he could implement payroll systems, why isn't he charging millions of dollars? He's probably copy/pasting "Yes no problem sir I will implement your system to the specified requirements" to 30 jobs a day and looking for a sucker.
2) Who is going to manage him? Me? If I have to manage him, he doesn't cost $50 a week, he costs ~$8,050 a week, because I'm the VP of a major bank unit. Talking to poor people is always a bad use of my time, because it competes with talking to rich people. (This is somewhat exaggerated but not false.)
3) Payroll systems are not a one-man job. After you get to team sizes of 20+, it really helps to have a system for recruiting/managing/etc them, so that you don't have to. I mean, at 20+, someone is statistically going to be getting married or quitting or dying every year. Do I want to deal with that? No. Let their boss deal with it.
4) If I pay an Indian freelancer $50 a week to make my payroll system, and the payroll system fails to ship on-time, I will lose my job because I did something which was freaking insane. There are things which, in American business, are insane, and there are things which are Known To Be Not Insane. Paying large, established technology consultancies millions of dollars is Known To Be Not Insane. Even if the project fails, it is not your fault, it is their fault. If the $50 a week Indian turns out to not be God's gift to programming, hiring him was definitely your fault.
It gets more complicated, but this hits some of the high notes.
When the Fortune 500 outsources to one of the bigger outsourcing firms like those you mentioned, they're outsourcing the whole process of developing software from requirements gathering to testing and the final output is not just working software, but a full trail of documentation for accountability.
You're not getting that from rent-a-coder.
Of course don't forget the cost of living is cheaper there so even the good ones can work for lower payment than in US.
EDIT: http://www.haygroup.com/ww/Downloads/Details.aspx?ID=1187
This links to a white paper that I think is the one referred to in the article but you have to sign up to get it.
P.S. Part of my ethnicity is Indian..
P.S.: It depends on a big load of factors!
I doubt it...