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Re:1 out of every 153 American workers is an Amazon employee by ethbr0 on Friday July 30, 2021 @03:43PM (#28011592)
Amazon is Amazon because they didn't let size dull their edge.

Unfortunately, that cuts both ways. There are a lot of ways to be exploitive, to your and your customers' benefits, when you're a $113 B revenue/quarter company, that simply aren't available when you're a startup.

Hell, Walmart pioneered the "How'd you like to sell in our stores?" + "You need to reduce prices, or it'd be a shame if we, your biggest customer, had to drop you" two step. And Amazon pioneered hyperscale logistics efficiencies. Both of which only work if you're giant.

If we want a return to competition of yore, I think it's only going to happen if we (a) prevent "extra-large" companies from having in-house logistics & (b) prevent predatory contracts and pricing when a size disparity exists (e.g. Walmart/supplier).

And given both of these are pretty fundamental to the way many companies work, I'm not even sure they'd be feasible.

Re:1 out of every 153 American workers is an Amazon employee by TheSoftwareGuy on Friday July 30, 2021 @03:51PM (#28011673)
> Amazon pioneered hyperscale logistics efficiencies

Actually, I believe that was Walmart as well: >TIMMER: I used to ask my class, I’m talking 1985, “Where is the world’s largest supercomputer?” And the correct answer was, “It’s at the Pentagon.” Okay. “Where is the world’s second largest supercomputer?” Bentonville, Ark. Home of Walmart. They used that computer to track every single item on every single Walmart shelf. That information technology is what revolutionized food marketing. And it was pretty much invented by Walmart.

Source: https://freakonomics.com/podcast/farms-race/#:%7E:text=where...

Re:1 out of every 153 American workers is an Amazon employee by chubot on Friday July 30, 2021 @03:54PM (#28011694)
Ironically Barnes And Noble was also a significant computer user in the 80’s and 90’s. They put a lot of local bookstores out of business with superior inventory, prices, and generally being data driven. Then they were one of Amazon’s first casualties!
Re:1 out of every 153 American workers is an Amazon employee by tjr on Friday July 30, 2021 @04:34PM (#28012047)
I frequently shopped at Barnes & Noble ~20 years ago. But they slowly carried less and less that I was interested in, seemingly shifting from a "store for people who like books" to a "store for people to buy gifts for people who like books".

At first I placed online orders with them, but once moving to online shopping at all, it was clear that Amazon had even better selection, prices, shipping, etc.

But I still enjoy a good physical bookstore. I might still shop there in person today if their stock was more interesting, even if the prices were a little higher.

Re:1 out of every 153 American workers is an Amazon employee by Rd6n6 on Friday July 30, 2021 @04:57PM (#28012271)
Chapters/indigo in Canada is like that. Half the stores are gift shops for socks and blankets etc. They removed all the tables and chairs they had 20 years ago for you to read at. At least they still exist though, all 4 used bookstores (plus one chapters) near where I live have closed down
Re:1 out of every 153 American workers is an Amazon employee by fzil on Saturday July 31, 2021 @12:14AM (#28015237)
> Half the stores are gift shops for socks and blankets etc.

Yeah this annoyed me to no end, however after a few shops I realized the only reason these are even open right now is because of the high margin gift section. Check the prices on their plushies when you are there. $35 for a small rabbit! and people buy them.

Re:1 out of every 153 American workers is an Amazon employee by ethbr0 on Saturday July 31, 2021 @04:56PM (#28021474)
That's the GE-ification of retail.

Yes, you should allocate a larger share of scarce resources (in this case, floor space) to high-margin product...

... but not at the expense of the central thesis of why customers actually come to your store.

B&N was able to sell high margin gift shop items because traffic was already there as a bookstore... and there as a bookstore because they had reading areas and a coffee shop.

Re:1 out of every 153 American workers is an Amazon employee by WalterBright on Friday July 30, 2021 @06:07PM (#28013010)
I buy books by the bushel from thrift stores. Can't beat those prices!
Re:1 out of every 153 American workers is an Amazon employee by xvilka on Saturday July 31, 2021 @03:55AM (#28016271)
Tsutaya bookstore in Japan is the best example of such a place. They also expanded to a few neighboring countries as well. I think it's one of the best big network bookstores I had been.
Re:1 out of every 153 American workers is an Amazon employee by rejectedandsad on Friday July 30, 2021 @09:14PM (#28014317)
My first interaction with Amazon was as the storefront for Borders Books online (since out of business). Interesting case of EEE.
Re:1 out of every 153 American workers is an Amazon employee by echelon on Friday July 30, 2021 @04:09PM (#28011848)
The pattern is that efficiency increases and hyperscale fell the previous incumbent. If the pace of innovation doesn't slow, Amazon may fall to the same forces.

Imagine a virtualized army of engineers that the AI or brain upload future may bring. Maybe that won't happen in our lifetimes, but it will happen at some point if we don't manage to nuke ourselves.

There are probably a handful of other trends that will cause instability and salients to develop in the fitness gradient.

Re:1 out of every 153 American workers is an Amazon employee by DougN7 on Friday July 30, 2021 @04:49PM (#28012189)
That sounds scary - a company even more powerful and competitive that could beat Amazon. Imagine what their abuses would be!
Re:1 out of every 153 American workers is an Amazon employee by WalterBright on Friday July 30, 2021 @06:06PM (#28013000)
> Then they were one of Amazon’s first casualties!

They're still in business. I browsed one last month. I was amused that one entire rack, 6 shelves, was filled with "Trump is Evil" books. Somebody at that store doesn't like Trump :-)

Re:1 out of every 153 American workers is an Amazon employee by rejectedandsad on Friday July 30, 2021 @09:17PM (#28014334)
I want to quickly emphasize that they are data driven enough to understand that lots of people buy those books because about 51-54% of the country doesn’t and never did like him.
Re:1 out of every 153 American workers is an Amazon employee by pclmulqdq on Saturday July 31, 2021 @07:59AM (#28017332)
The last barnes and noble I went to had a liberal shelf and a conservative shelf (not labeled as such, but clearly separated). I live in a county that biden won by <1%. It's clearly a data-driven decision and both sides of the aisle love buying books from their tribe.
Re:1 out of every 153 American workers is an Amazon employee by kortilla on Friday July 30, 2021 @10:55PM (#28014840)
But who are those books for? I don’t buy books about politicians I don’t like.
Re:1 out of every 153 American workers is an Amazon employee by rejectedandsad on Friday July 30, 2021 @11:15PM (#28014945)
A non-trivial number of people do across the political spectrum. Political memoirs for instance are usually ghostwritten (outside of the first Obama book and maybe the Pete book given he was a nobody) and are only purchased in order to show support for the candidate. It's a team spirit thing.

Plus, I'm sure some have their own niches (satire, exposés like "Frankly we won this election" that have new reporting, etc) and many have their own historical value. I saw an ant-Tom DeLay book in the wild a few years ago well after his fall from grace and considered buying it just as a keepsake of the era.

Re:1 out of every 153 American workers is an Amazon employee by kortilla on Tuesday August 03, 2021 @06:32PM (#28055042)
No, not books meant to paint politicians in a good light. I’m talking about these “orange man bad” books. Why would I want to spend hours of my life reading more details about a man I don’t want occupying my mind?
Re:1 out of every 153 American workers is an Amazon employee by WalterBright on Saturday July 31, 2021 @12:14AM (#28015236)
I do. "Don't like" is not the same as "not interesting".
Re:1 out of every 153 American workers is an Amazon employee by WalterBright on Saturday July 31, 2021 @12:19AM (#28015260)
I read a couple months ago that publishers were being pressured not to publish books by Trump insiders.
Re:1 out of every 153 American workers is an Amazon employee by rejectedandsad on Saturday July 31, 2021 @01:05AM (#28015446)
Yeah, and that probably didn't stem much of the flow because the rest were published by journalists. If anything some of the insiders' accounts were just as scathing as the explicitly anti-Trump books, which is saying something.
Re:1 out of every 153 American workers is an Amazon employee by daddylongstroke on Saturday July 31, 2021 @07:23AM (#28017132)
Same here - went into the shop for the first time in a few years about 3 years ago, and was shocked to see two rows of "self-help"-type books. Amazing. It seems many people have outsourced our friends and familial support structures to random writers.
Re:1 out of every 153 American workers is an Amazon employee by dekhn on Friday July 30, 2021 @06:15PM (#28013084)
Um the pentagon didn't have the world's largest supercomputer, and neither did walmart. walmart wouldn't buy a supercomputer to do logistics, as supercomputers are super expensive for modest speed improvements and you didn't need them to do supply chain optimization, and anyway, product tracking is a DB problem, not a supercomputer problem.

What's sad is that there probably is some interesting IT story behind Walmart scaling, but not using supercomputers and using PCs or somethign instead.

Re:1 out of every 153 American workers is an Amazon employee by 14u2c on Friday July 30, 2021 @06:56PM (#28013438)
In this context it sounds like supercomputer would more analogous to mainframe.
Re:1 out of every 153 American workers is an Amazon employee by bradknowles on Friday July 30, 2021 @10:29PM (#28014675)
In 1985, they did have mainframes at the Pentagon. But they dated from the 1960s.

My first job out of college in 1989 was to go to work in the basement of The Pentagon for the Defense Communications Agency, as an Analyst/Terminal Operator for those old pre-Multics Honeywell WWMCCS mainframes. One of my first jobs there was to help modernized the classified Airfields database from COBOL 66 to COBOL 77.

At the beginning, we used glass tty terminals that were wrapped in faraday cages, and all local printing was done via a screen print function to local thermal paper printers. We could use the line printers, but those were not directly accessible to us, and we had to go up to the Operator window to ask for our output.

They later upgraded the terminals to EMF-hardened IBM PC XT computers with removable 5GB hard drives, known as WIS-CUC terminals. That was like 1991. Note that this was PC XT technology from like 1984, not PC AT.

The unclassified PC AT type computers we used outside of the classified environments probably had more RAM, larger hard drives, and more I/O capacity than those ancient Honeywell mainframes.

So, no, there weren’t any supercomputers at the Pentagon in 1985.

Now, if you want to talk about NSA headquarters at Fort Meade, then that’s a different story.

Re:1 out of every 153 American workers is an Amazon employee by syshum on Friday July 30, 2021 @06:54PM (#28013428)
It would be funny if everyone thinks they used this sophisticated technology or supercomputer when in reality it was just someone with an excel workbook at ton of vba code

/s

Re:1 out of every 153 American workers is an Amazon employee by bradknowles on Friday July 30, 2021 @10:30PM (#28014686)
An Excel spreadsheet with VBA would have been a huge improvement. I figure the Pentagon probably did that about twenty years later.
Re:1 out of every 153 American workers is an Amazon employee by wil421 on Friday July 30, 2021 @04:17PM (#28011918)
Don’t forget that Amazon still needs almost $200 billion more in revenue to beat Walmart. They have $550 billion in revenue and don’t have something like AWS.

Amazon has only recently pioneered last mile logistics. It still isnt that great. I’m in a large metro area and 25-50% of my packages do not meet the prime delivery dates. I’d argue Walmart is still the king of logistics, for now.

Re:1 out of every 153 American workers is an Amazon employee by brutus1213 on Friday July 30, 2021 @05:16PM (#28012474)
Out of all the retailers I have experience with, the pandemic winner was Walmart (Canada) hands-down. They kept iterating their app and pickup experience (order via app and they put the groceries in your trunk) .. I am an extremely satisfied customer and have increased my spend there!

Losers for me were Home Depot and Canadian Tire. They iterated slowly and when they did, made things worse it seemed.

Re:1 out of every 153 American workers is an Amazon employee by tharkun__ on Friday July 30, 2021 @07:21PM (#28013621)
Opposite experience here. Walmart is always a drab experience. I have never been in a Walmart store that I felt good in. Some Walmart's beat others in how disgusting they are but that's about it.

Home Depot on the other end was great. When there was a shortage of disinfectant (and government mandated clean hands before allowing people into stores) they just added actual washing basins with regular soap and paper towels and I could go get stuff to do projects. I have never been to HD as often as during 2020.

I used online ordering literally once at HD and CT each during that time. HD made me call/text a number with my order# when I arrived and they brought the items out for me but I really only used that because something was low stock in the one of many HD stores I could go to that had any of the item at all and I wanted to "reserve" it. No app needed which is a big big plus for me. I abhor all these apps for everything.

CD wasn't bad either. Same deal, reserving an item with low stock until I could go get it. I just picked it all up at the online order desk where it had already been put in a cart.

I don't like ordering food online. Had to do it once while waiting for a negative covid test result. You don't get to pick the actual items you want (fruits/veggies). Not great. I already don't like how cashiers throw your sensitive veggies around all the time. Never mind how they're being handled in the rest of the chain. Before anyone asks, yes I do choose which line I choose by who is the cashier/packer over length of line.

Re:1 out of every 153 American workers is an Amazon employee by throwaway0a5e on Friday July 30, 2021 @07:23PM (#28013631)
Varies by locale.

Walmart doesn't "try" where they have to compete with upscale options because even if they do good the rich people will still shop there.because of the Walmart stigma. And the poor people only care about price so they won't be turned off if Walmart doesn't try hard.

Also, there are some really crappy Home Depots out there. In my experience they're the ones without appreciable competition.

Re:1 out of every 153 American workers is an Amazon employee by ethbr0 on Friday July 30, 2021 @07:00PM (#28013479)
I'm not a frequent Walmart delivery customer, but my impression was they didn't take buy-online/ship-to-home or buy-online/ship-to-store seriously until the Jet acquisition. Which Walmart bought in 2016?
Re:1 out of every 153 American workers is an Amazon employee by brutus1213 on Friday July 30, 2021 @07:17PM (#28013595)
So Walmart Canada's pick up seemed to develop in front of my eyes. At the start of the pandemic, there were almost no spots and they screwed up a lot. E.g you'd get half the items you ordered, wrong items, would not get pick up order ready in time, fee on orders, etc. Whoever ran the show, executed brilliantly. It kept getting better. A relative scoffed at my high praise, and I convinced him to try it .. he too was blown away. I bring this up because so many Canadian retailers acted stupidly and frankly, many old school businesses keep doing this all the time (looking at you Costco .. Costco seemed to have pretended the pandemic did not happen .. they did not develop a touchless pick up model at all, and their online prices seemed to always be higher than the store price .. cancelled my membership there).
Re:1 out of every 153 American workers is an Amazon employee by tharkun__ on Friday July 30, 2021 @07:35PM (#28013717)
To be brutally honest: What does "touchless" mean here except clever marketing that plays off fears about Covid?

If anything more people touch your items in this system or its on par. Sure there's no cashier/packer touching your items at checkout. But the equivalent has to happen internally. I have no idea how it actually works but I gather since most stuff goes directly into the store and not the warehouse someone walks through the store and picks the order like you would exposing themselves to the Covid risks and then potentially someone else packs it all up and yet another person delivers it to your car as this happens asynchronously and there might even be a shift change in between.

FWIW my Costco didn't pretend the pandemic didn't happen. I still sometimes have to wait to get into the fruit/veggie or dairy coolers, with someone making sure that not too many people are in there at the same time. They applied the limits intelligently (only allowing one person per membership into the warehouse at all at a time when the government limits were very low) so as to allow more people to shop without having to wait outside for ages (which happened in the first 'panic buying stage' of the pandemic). They have less produce in the cooler too to allow more space for passing (even to the detriment of the produce. I just don't buy some stuff any longer as its no longer cooled and there are quality issues). They also rearranged some other stuff to make it easier to access without bumping into each other. None of the other stores I have been to have done this at all.

Re:1 out of every 153 American workers is an Amazon employee by martinpw on Friday July 30, 2021 @07:39PM (#28013745)
Amazon revenue for last 4 quarters is: ~$440bn (96 + 126 + 108 + 113) so only just over $100bn away. At current growth rates, it seems like they may get there next year?
Re:1 out of every 153 American workers is an Amazon employee by wil421 on Friday July 30, 2021 @08:02PM (#28013915)
A pandemic year is not a normal year. Everyone ordered online by necessity and Amazon is the de facto online retailer. Brick and motor was hit harder last year.
Re:1 out of every 153 American workers is an Amazon employee by cbozeman on Friday July 30, 2021 @06:03PM (#28012965)
> If we want a return to competition of yore

I think we're beyond that now. I really do.

We thought we were going to get Weyland-Yutani, but I think we're going to end up with Bezos-Walton instead.

Re:1 out of every 153 American workers is an Amazon employee by jimmaswell on Friday July 30, 2021 @10:17PM (#28014617)
I don't want a return to having to go to a million little overpriced stores sending me stuff with 2+ weeks shipping in the name of competition. Seems like Wal Mart is gearing up to compete with Amazon anyway.

The only government responses we need here are better labor laws and maybe a few tax code changes.