Is Amnesty also biased?

https://www.amnesty.org/en/countries/middle-east-and-north-a...

I just glanced it.

Yes. Bias here. Whoever wrote this has not been reading history closely enough.

I will continue to support Amnesty though. One of the better ones IMO, together with MSF.

I don't know as much about them, sorry. Quick Google search showed that there has been some claims of selection bias and "not telling the full story". My take is that they're doing a disservice to both sides.

By "don't they do everything to avoid hitting civilians" do you mean the warning phone calls? They don't make such calls when their aim is to assassinate someone - for obvious reasons.. The IDF also has good information on who lives where - that's how they know where to bomb - so they know that many children will be killed/murdered - as they often are.. The aim is killing some terrorist leader - which is arguably rather dubious given that they'll soon be replaced and the additional hatred will help greatly with terroist recruitment..

e.g. see https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/gaza-israel-wiping-entir...

I'm not sure you can simulataneously accuse hrw of bias (wrt isreal-palestine conflict), but also link to the jerusalem post

Washington Post better? https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2014/07/3...

They've been doing it for years. The odd ones are the one's who aren't reporting it.

Israeli settlers regularly steal Palestinian lands and homes. Israeli military regularly demolishes Palestinian homes. Israeli snipers kill Palestinian children with sniper rifles, sometimes while comrades are cheering. Israeli drones kill Palestinian children playing soccer on the beach.

The Israeli army wants us to not believe our eyes when we see the destruction of civilian buildings [1]. They want us to pretend like its normal for snipers to cheer when they shoot unarmed civilians [2]. They want us to pretend like its normal to fire missiles at children playing on the beach [3].

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sLhXRDS1Dtw

[2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eyLzRv_kNXU

[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Gaza_war_beach_bombing_in...

I wonder, what is that makes you dehumanize Palestinians and present such a skewed picture of what happens to Palestinians?

> Israeli settlers regularly steal Palestinian lands and homes.

> Israeli military regularly demolishes Palestinian homes.

This is another important discussion. However the recent east Jerusalem case has been about Jewish homes that was given to Arab families during the short Jordanian rule of the area, wasn't it?

> Israeli snipers kill Palestinian children with sniper rifles, sometimes while comrades are cheering.

I cannot support everything Israelis do. If this is correct and the kids where unarmed etc this is a war crime and should be punished as such.

> Israeli drones kill Palestinian children playing soccer on the beach.

Extremely sad case. Also possible reason for war crimes investigation, but:

It would be extremely ironic if that case gets prosecuted while the even worse guys who start a war from this area doesn't get prosecuted.

Israelis are to blame here for not being careful enough, "Palestinian leaders" for starting this.

> The Israeli army wants us to not believe our eyes when we see the destruction of civilian buildings [1].

No, they are quite clear that it is civilian buildings - only with significant presence of legitimate targets.

> They want us to pretend like its normal for snipers to cheer when they shoot unarmed civilians [2].

Link does not support your claim?

> They want us to pretend like its normal to fire missiles at children playing on the beach [3].

Again, link does not support your claim.

[...]

> I wonder, what is that makes you dehumanize Palestinians and present such a skewed picture of what happens to Palestinians?

I do not dehumanize them.

I feel terribly sorry for them.

They are suffering more than the Israelis now.

But the solution isn't to continue to ostracize the least unreasonable part of the conflict and turn a blind eye to the ones who keeps starting this "war" again and again.

You act like East Jerusalem is the only place where Israelis are colonizing Palestinian lands. It is common for the Israeli army to show up to some nice land, declare the land a military zone, proceed to kill and evict Palestinians, and then begin construction of a new settlement for new settlers.

But why are we surprised by this? This has been going on since before Israel when terrorist groups like the Haganah and the Levi would terrorize Palestinians to force them to flee. Of course this policy continues because the leaders of these groups later became prime ministers, presidents, and generals.

Israel is a presently criminal state (settler colonialism is a crime) with a criminal and bloody history. We aren’t ostracizing it — we are pointing out the facts and demanding justice.

> This has been going on since before Israel when terrorist groups like the Haganah and the Levi would terrorize Palestinians to force them to flee.

One of the differences between me and you is that I admit Israelis have faults.

What you say is of course to some degree right.

But presenting it this way without mentioning all the Arab terrorist groups, how the Arabs sided with the nazis etc makes it a huge lie anyway because it makes people think it is one sided.

It isn't.

And media is constantly fueling the same lie.

Arabs sided with the Nazis? You really don’t mind giving history a nice stretch so long as it fits your narrative.

See the other answer here, then stop to reconsider on how many other accounts you are simultaneously mistaken && accusing others at the same time.

Then we can soon start discussing the real problems.

But I am fully aware that Israel has some serious problems so this always starts with me and others shattering the illusion that media and others have created over the last 40 years that this is one sided and that a simple good solution exists.

I wish Arabs living in Palestine and everywhere else all well and I can even kind of understand them.

My biggest problem is well meaning but uninformed journalists and forum participants who keep fueling this from the sidelines - and I wish you well as well.

I am sorry but you are really quite off. Answer me this, how you would feel if you were an Arab living in Palestine? How would you feel if you had to live in an apartheid system where another person can kill your family or steal your property with more-or-less impunity just because you are an Arab? Now tell me how would you react when you read that Israel precision-bombed an entire family [1] in response to “Hamas rockets from nearby”. Stop dancing around the real problems. Widespread racism. Apartheid policies. Settler colonialism. Systemic injustice. Disproportionate responses. Tell me your solutions to these problems.

I think you assume a lot when you say that people post “from the sidelines”. I would say that given the huge number of Palestinian victims some the people who post on the forums have probably suffered a loss of family/property/livelihood because of the Israelis.

[1] https://www.npr.org/2021/05/23/999563043/gaza-residents-acce...

> how you would feel if you were an Arab living in Palestine?

Terrible. Either I'd feel terrible because I was oppressed by the Israelis or less likely I guess because I realized I was oppressed by Hamas and Iran.

Again: I see both sides. If everyone here where overwhelmingly denying Israel ever did anything wrong I could play another role.

That never happens though so I am relegated to always inform people about basic pro Israel facts.

I’m not sure I understand your “less likely” remark. Are you conceding that Israel is doing most of the oppressing of Palestinians? Or do you mean that you wouldn’t feel terrible about Israeli land-theft/killing/jailing/apartheid because of Iran and Hamas?

While we are on this topic: how is this a “both sides” issue? Let’s keep it simple and not try to compare Israel oppression of gazans to the Hamas/Iran oppression. Please explain to us how does Hamas and Iran oppress West Bank Palestinians?

> I’m not sure I understand your “less likely” remark. Are you conceding that Israel is doing most of the oppressing of Palestinians?

I mean Hamas has a pretty strong grip over what gets said and written in Gaza.

> Please explain to us how does Hamas and Iran oppress West Bank Palestinians?

Torture, disappearances, embezzlement of aid, using civilians as shields. Iran comes in as supporters.

Yes, in some way this is not a both sides issue. One side is almost a normal democracy, the other is run by a cleptocratic regime that refuses to hold elections.

Best example here is the grand mufti of jerusalem. https://time.com/4084301/hitler-grand-mufi-1941/

Like I said, it’s really quite a stretch to conclude that “Arabs sided with the Nazis” because of the arguably inconsequential positions of one individual — from the small Palestinian subset of the middle-eastern Arab population. Mind you these meetings occurred at the tail end of the war to discuss the forced migration of European Jews to Palestine.

Anyhow, what makes this feel like such a low misrepresentation are the historical facts that Arabs were taking in the Jewish victims and refugees that the Nazis were forcing out of Germany while the Europeans and Americans were refusing them.

> Arabs were taking in the Jewish victims and refugees that the Nazis were forcing out of Germany while the Europeans and Americans were refusing them.

Good point. In all fairness you do have some good points and if you stick to them I say you have a better story.

Here is the video of the sniper shooting a clearly unarmed person while his comrades are cheering and raving about the video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eyLzRv_kNXU

I wonder how many instances of this kind of targeting occur without a video recording being leaked to the public.

Most palestinians suffer from this situation, but it's important to remind everyone that palestinians torture each other because there are 2 camps, Fatah led my Mahmoud Abbas, and the Hamas, which is heavily influenced by Iran.

I don't like Israeli extremists either, but at some point, I don't think Israel can just sit idle when rockets are fired from civilian positions and fired on Israeli civilians.

Palestinian terrorists are evil cowards and they don't hesitate to put civilian in danger and talk about martyrdom.

Palestinians have been protesting Mahmoud Abbas, and as long as Palestinians are unable to gain leadership and organize, violence will continue. I really dislike how people have been blaming Israel as a whole. The extremist government surely has responsbility, but I'm curious about how de-escalation will be possible.

The Wikipedia is a case of whataboutism. And a complaint of how difficult it is to influence HRW by government, leaders and special interest groups.

The fact that you linked to a jpost article and shined light on the little israel does to “save” lives after literally bombarding them tells me where you stand in relation to the conflict.