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Re:Agile at 20: The Failed Rebellion by Clewza313 on Sunday July 25, 2021 @02:40AM (#27947247)
This is (IMHO) the biggest single miss in most attempts to be "Agile". The customer/end user is supposed to be embedded in the team, doing actual work with the program, raw and hacky as it may be. This way the feedback is immediate and accurate. Passively watching smoke and mirror demos once every sprint is a far cry from this.

Of course, this isn't applicable/possible for all types of software (you can't really iterate your way to an MVP nuclear reactor) but there's less of this than you'd think.

Re:Agile at 20: The Failed Rebellion by nicoburns on Sunday July 25, 2021 @05:11AM (#27947838)
One key part of this that a lot of businesses miss is that this means that every member of the team shoul have direct contact with thw customer, not just a "point of contact"
Re:Agile at 20: The Failed Rebellion by 2sk21 on Sunday July 25, 2021 @06:40AM (#27948182)
This is a good point. However in practice we wind up with a number of gatekeepers between the developer and the actual users. These gatekeepers are both on the customer side and the developer side. For example on the developer side, sales people typically do not like being disintermediated since it reduces their relevance. On the customer side, managers often do not want outside developers bothering their workers.
Re:Agile at 20: The Failed Rebellion by pydry on Sunday July 25, 2021 @08:46AM (#27948770)
As a developer I've had plenty of pointless and unpleasant customer interactions thrust upon me. It's not a good thing.

I have always appreciated product managers who effectively intermediated customers, had deep domain knowledge, managed stakeholder expectations, learned how to interpret what they said (and ignore what isnt relevant), asked the right questions, prioritize effectively and output to me a nice set of, de-noised, ordered, precise answers to the question "what do I do next?"

It's a rare skill. It boosts my productivity immensely when done right. It removes cognitive load from the developer.

Even when POs make mistakes and misinterpret requirements I still appreciate that being somebody else's problem. It quells my anxiety immensely and lets me focus on developing the thing right without having to worry about whether Im developing the right thing.

Re:Agile at 20: The Failed Rebellion by pjmlp on Sunday July 25, 2021 @05:16AM (#27947856)
Because that isn't something their management levels will even consider a possibility, given security concerns, politics, and whatever might come up if the project goes south and a lawsuit is bound to happen.

These agile ideas only work in an ideal world of "we are all friends here".

Re:Agile at 20: The Failed Rebellion by nicoburns on Sunday July 25, 2021 @07:13AM (#27948307)
I'm sure this is true of some companies, but I've definitely seen this done well in a few places. Often software agencies.
Re:Agile at 20: The Failed Rebellion by walshemj on Sunday July 25, 2021 @11:25AM (#27949822)
Co located teams is what you really need (sorry WFH fans)
Re:Agile at 20: The Failed Rebellion by detaro on Sunday July 25, 2021 @12:34PM (#27950503)
The best "agile" experience I've had was with a team spread across the continent. Good communication & process != co-located. (And if your customer is external, it even puts them on a more equal footing)
Re:Agile at 20: The Failed Rebellion by walshemj on Sunday July 25, 2021 @04:08PM (#27952481)
Ok it might be "good" but its not the best "communication & process " you get with collocated teams.

The skunkworks teams the developed the Apple MAC is one very good example.

Re:Agile at 20: The Failed Rebellion by pjmlp on Sunday July 25, 2021 @12:26PM (#27950427)
Try to sell that to corporations with distributed teams, on the RFP answer.

The majority will rather pick other vendor that doesn't propose such change into their internal processes.

Unless they are asking for consultation on how to change work processes, that is.

Re:Agile at 20: The Failed Rebellion by walshemj on Sunday July 25, 2021 @04:10PM (#27952493)
That would not be Agile then - Agile trades off almost every thing for speed.
Re:Agile at 20: The Failed Rebellion by pjmlp on Sunday July 25, 2021 @05:02PM (#27952887)
Hence why it is in its current adoption state.