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Re:The FPGA Designer Who Didn't Get the Job by vmception on Wednesday July 21, 2021 @11:48PM (#27915123)
For those having trouble with this, the consensus within inclusionary groups in the US is that sex and gender are separate concepts. Meaning that males can be recognized as males and females as females, no matter what their pronouns are, as that is sex. Gender is not intrinsically tied to those, so gendered words like “man, woman” and “he, she” can be dynamic and up to the individual to identify as.

The consensus on this may seem confusing because other English speaking countries have not necessarily adopted this clear separation, within trans communities or areas willing to be inclusive.

So on the internet, a lot of discussion on these topics gets mixed up with exclusionary as well as simply Commonwealth residents versions of how to be inclusive.

The general recognition is that people are able to be productive members of society by simply saying their desired pronouns. Even when “they” adds an additional context as a singular form which didnt exist prior, or when “xie” didnt previously exist as an English word. It is such a simple ask with massive productivity leverage that people are willing to do it. It would not be a lie, when separating sex from gender.

Re:The FPGA Designer Who Didn't Get the Job by sascha_sl on Thursday July 22, 2021 @01:57AM (#27915859)
Also, HRT changes many of the factors we simplify to “sex”, based on it changing all sex-based gene expression. So while you can’t literally change to “the other” sex these people rather exist outside the simplified classification.

Not that anyone but your doctor should care.

[dead]
Re:The FPGA Designer Who Didn't Get the Job by vmception on Thursday July 22, 2021 @12:13AM (#27915258)
Within inclusionary communities it is a prevailing consensus. It makes it make sense and is very benign for everyone else to accomodate.
Re:The FPGA Designer Who Didn't Get the Job by jimbob45 on Wednesday July 21, 2021 @11:59PM (#27915194)
Everything starts with a “simple ask”. If it’s so small and simple, then why are we being fought tooth-and-nail over it?

There is no consensus either, outside of a small minority. Prior to 2012, custom pronouns would have had you laughed out of the room. You don’t get to redefine language and force your linguistic preferences on others. That’s not how language works.

Re:The FPGA Designer Who Didn't Get the Job by wyldfire on Thursday July 22, 2021 @12:11AM (#27915243)
> You don’t get to redefine language and force your linguistic preferences on others. That’s not how language works.

In fact I think it actually does. In the last century this kind of thing has happened many times. One phenomenon is the way we refer to people who have intellectual disabilities. Sometimes it's called the Euphemism treadmill - as clinical names are created to describe a problem, they get used as a pejorative and the clinical name is now associated with the pejorative use. New clinical names are created without this association and on it goes - idiot, moron, retarded, slow, special needs, etc.

Also, minorities have sought to redefine how they're described. Negro, black, African American. Oriental, Asian.

Natural languages reflect their usage. So it's normal for popular usage of language to change how we speak. Some of those changes are incidental and some are deliberate - the result of a social campaign.

Re:The FPGA Designer Who Didn't Get the Job by FormhellFrom on Thursday July 22, 2021 @12:26AM (#27915340)
> You don’t get to redefine language and force your linguistic preferences on others. That’s not how language works.

you literally do and that’s literally how language works. You are free to disagree with these new definitions, and in turn people are free to show you the door, just like what occurred in the post above.

(What’s the alternative? Words are given a fixed definition at their conception? Who gives these definitions?)

Re:The FPGA Designer Who Didn't Get the Job by jimbob45 on Thursday July 22, 2021 @02:12AM (#27915949)
The alternative is that linguistic preferences aren't forced upon others?
Re:The FPGA Designer Who Didn't Get the Job by FormhellFrom on Thursday July 22, 2021 @02:27AM (#27916038)
Ok, then where does the meaning of a given word come from? It comes from somewhere. If not from consensus, then where?

this is all unfortunately very far from the original argument, which is that it takes no effort to just use whatever pronoun is asked for. It’s no different than when someone named Thomas says “please call me Tom.” Do you jump up on the table and start citing Bible verses about the perils of falsehoods, or do you just fucking call the guy Tom?

Re:The FPGA Designer Who Didn't Get the Job by thebooktocome on Thursday July 22, 2021 @12:13AM (#27915257)
> You don’t get to redefine language and force your linguistic preferences on others. That’s not how language works.

I don't particularly care about rehashing the ethics of preferred pronouns right now, but what you've described is exactly how language works. You might look into why standard practice moved away from capitalizing nouns in the 19th century.

Re:The FPGA Designer Who Didn't Get the Job by neolog on Thursday July 22, 2021 @02:21AM (#27916000)
> why standard practice moved away from capitalizing nouns in the 19th century.

I can't find any reason on google. Got a link?

Re:The FPGA Designer Who Didn't Get the Job by wyldfire on Thursday July 22, 2021 @12:18AM (#27915291)
Deutsch is keeping the faith in the twenty first century!
Re:The FPGA Designer Who Didn't Get the Job by vmception on Thursday July 22, 2021 @12:35AM (#27915392)
Not only on capitalized pronouns but heavily intrinsically gendered language!

English is like easy mode for inclusion.

Re:The FPGA Designer Who Didn't Get the Job by sircastor on Thursday July 22, 2021 @02:14PM (#27922342)
I'll throw another counter-example in the pot here: 'Literally' has come to mean (in modern parlance) both literally and figuratively. You can disagree and push back against the use and abuse of a word, but language and the use of language will continue to change with or without you.