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Re:Beware explanations from AI in health care by armchairhacker on Wednesday July 21, 2021 @01:15PM (#27909104)
Idk, people have the same weaknesses that we always blame on AI. People have bias, people lack empathy, people make incorrect moral judgements.

Doctors have bias. Doctors sometimes get apathetic. Not because they have bad intentions, in fact I bet most doctors really care and really try. But because they're overworked, and they have to care for many patients who they don't personally know, and some of whom get very sick. And because they're only human.

In fact, I believe the way most doctor's appointments work is that the doctor gets a list of symptoms, then matches it against a checklist of what they were taught / experience to form a diagnosis. Very similar to an AI algorithm. Of course this isn't as easy as it seems, you can't just Google the symptoms yourself. Doctors' knowledge and experience is very deep, and takes many years to develop. But still, it's not something an AI couldn't eventually automate.

Right now I would be skeptical of an AI doctor, just because I don't think current AI has that capability. But seriously, if ML gets better I would trust it better than any real doctor.

Re:Beware explanations from AI in health care by avgDev on Wednesday July 21, 2021 @01:29PM (#27909302)
The issues with doctors is that many of them are operating on knowledge that is not completely up to date.

Doctors have an extremely hard time dealing with complex disorders or even diagnosing them. People go years without a proper diagnosis.

I would love for doctors to just take all the information during first visit and then use some kind of search engine/AI that would go and analyze current literature, new research and suggest things to rule out in a cost effective manner while ruling out things that would need immediate diagnosis/treatment such as cancers.

Patients also need to be tracked if they agree to it, especially if they have a serious disabling condition. Their sleeping habits, diet and everything they do needs to reviewed in detail but just isn't done. Most of these things are self reported and that can be problematic.

Re:Beware explanations from AI in health care by TaupeRanger on Wednesday July 21, 2021 @03:33PM (#27911000)
Your first two paragraphs are two separate issues. If their info is not up to date, maybe they need some additional training. The reason they have a hard time with complex issues isn't their fault. Medical practice and science in general can't deal with complexity very well, and there is very real danger of iatrogenics if they over test and over treat.
Re:Beware explanations from AI in health care by bick_nyers on Wednesday July 21, 2021 @01:40PM (#27909445)
Interesting, so the AI will filter out irrelevant information that the doctor can then focus on. I think from a social perspective that might be hard, because the patient/doctor has to be freely comfortable with the idea that the doctor was not an expert in that sub-area before, and had to recently learn/come up to speed to be able to help. To me it seems like doctors don't want to freely admit that they don't know something (that they can figure out), and patients don't want to think that is the case.

Slightly related but there's a website somewhere that you can upload your DNA sequence (in a .txt file!) to and it shows you relevant scientific literature. About 50% of those articles for me told me that I was probably going to develop male pattern baldness in my thirties/forties.

Re:Beware explanations from AI in health care by avgDev on Wednesday July 21, 2021 @01:49PM (#27909567)
I technically use my own 'algorithm' before taking any new medications. It isn't sophisticated at all. However, I'm surprised the medical community is completely ignoring the fact that some medications have support groups. While that doesn't mean a drug might be unsafe, it definitely can point towards some adverse affect that was missed in the studies. If you try to find any groups for penicillin, you will nearly find nothing....now look at accutane.

Basically, pharmaceutical marketing is causing doctors to be really misinformed and a lot of doctors lack knowledge about updates from the FDA on certain drugs. They often prescribe medication which are more dangerous than others.

I am thinking about creating my own little tool to research drugs before taking them.

Re:Beware explanations from AI in health care by disabled on Wednesday July 21, 2021 @03:20PM (#27910809)
May want to check out this: http://snap.stanford.edu/decagon/
Re:Beware explanations from AI in health care by disabled on Wednesday July 21, 2021 @05:35PM (#27912508)
The repo utilizes SIDER which is a drug side effect repo: http://sideeffects.embl.de/

It also utilizes DrugBank: https://DrugBank.com

Re:Beware explanations from AI in health care by nradov on Wednesday July 21, 2021 @02:03PM (#27909767)
So far personalized medicine based on DNA sequencing has been mostly a bust. In most cases the data isn't really actionable. It might tell you that you have an elevated risk for certain conditions but in most cases the absolute risk is still low. Or there's not much you can practically do to lower the risk.

There are a few exceptions like BRCA where the risk from certain genotypes is high enough to justify aggressive preventative care.

Re:Beware explanations from AI in health care by nradov on Wednesday July 21, 2021 @01:57PM (#27909681)
That's really not how doctors actually work in most cases.

There have been clinical decision support systems around for years which can recommend a diagnosis given complete and accurate clinical data. The real problem is gathering that data, and putting it in a form that the algorithm can use. An AI algorithm can't really gather a detailed patient history or make subjective observations about the patient's state. Those are steps which can't really be automated without strong AGI. In theory a doctor could do all the necessary data entry but in practice it would usually be a waste of time and no one wants to pay for it.

Re:Beware explanations from AI in health care by andreilys on Wednesday July 21, 2021 @04:05PM (#27911398)
An AI algorithm can't really gather a detailed patient history or make subjective observations about the patient's state

Chat bots can handle data collection, “subjective” patient state can be collected through image recognition and tone analysis. Not sure you need AGI to accomplish either of these tasks.

Re:Beware explanations from AI in health care by nradov on Thursday July 22, 2021 @12:45AM (#27915460)
Feel free to try building a chat bot for that. I guarantee you will fail.
Re:Beware explanations from AI in health care by 908B64B197 on Wednesday July 21, 2021 @04:01PM (#27911352)
> But because they're overworked, and they have to care for many patients who they don't personally know

I keep hearing this whining about overwork, and yet when the subject of residency quota set by the AMA comes up or delegating duties to nurses with almost the same amount of schooling suddenly you can hear crickets in the room.

> In fact, I believe the way most doctor's appointments work is that the doctor gets a list of symptoms, then matches it against a checklist of what they were taught / experience to form a diagnosis. Very similar to an AI algorithm. Of course this isn't as easy as it seems, you can't just Google the symptoms yourself.

Yes you can, and should. Remember half doctors out there are below average...