Ultimately I just find these conversations frustrating. People say they're concerned about the environment but then go into fits at having to make even trivial sacrifices like putting up with electric stoves which are better than they've ever been. And in the process they point at vital industries like shipping and agriculture and say we should do away with those first. If you compare the sacrifices people made, say, to win World War II, just on the home front -- gas rationing, donating household goods for scrap metal, etc.-- it makes us look quite unable to meet the historic moment to see people have fits about using a paper straw.