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Re:I'm a Frito-Lay Factory Worker. I Work 12-Hour Days, 7 Da... by akudha on Saturday July 17, 2021 @04:29PM (#27868570)
Jeez! 59 year old guy with the same salary for the last 10 years. People working in 100 degree temperatures with no air conditioning.

This is depressing to read :(

Re:I'm a Frito-Lay Factory Worker. I Work 12-Hour Days, 7 Da... by cj on Saturday July 17, 2021 @07:41PM (#27869683)
It’s these people I think about when reading the weekly threads here on developer burn out.
Re:I'm a Frito-Lay Factory Worker. I Work 12-Hour Days, 7 Da... by regularjack on Saturday July 17, 2021 @07:59PM (#27869757)
Burnout is a legitimate health issue for many people in this forum, and elsewhere.
Re:I'm a Frito-Lay Factory Worker. I Work 12-Hour Days, 7 Da... by edoceo on Saturday July 17, 2021 @08:18PM (#27869831)
Every laborer sells the same the same thing: their body. It's just about which parts for how much - and the toll/risk each entails. All deserve a fair wage and respect.
Re:I'm a Frito-Lay Factory Worker. I Work 12-Hour Days, 7 Da... by bitanarch on Saturday July 17, 2021 @09:18PM (#27870084)
Agreed.

Humans are inherently fragile beings with almost no redundant parts. If I fry your brain with long hours and politically hostile work environment and drive you to depression; vs. I fry your brain with long hours in physically exhausting environments. The results are the same - your brain is fried. One type of hostile work environment is not necessarily better or worse than another type of hostile work environment.

Re:I'm a Frito-Lay Factory Worker. I Work 12-Hour Days, 7 Da... by djohnston on Sunday July 18, 2021 @08:03AM (#27872233)
I've worked as both a manual laborer on a construction site and a software engineer at big tech corp. The burnout I get as an engineer is way better than what I felt as a laborer, I don't think most people who have done both would consider them similar.
Re:I'm a Frito-Lay Factory Worker. I Work 12-Hour Days, 7 Da... by seba_dos1 on Monday July 19, 2021 @04:26PM (#27886907)
How would you actually describe the burnout you get as an engineer? How long does it take? Have you recovered? How?

I suspect that there are many definitions of the term "burnout" being used by different people, making communication difficult.

Re:I'm a Frito-Lay Factory Worker. I Work 12-Hour Days, 7 Da... by willbw on Saturday July 17, 2021 @09:23PM (#27870111)
I would push back against "the results are the same". They are objectively not the same. Of course physical and mental exhaustion are both bad, but I think people would prefer to work in an office than a factory and trying to equate the two experiences is a little reductive.
Re:I'm a Frito-Lay Factory Worker. I Work 12-Hour Days, 7 Da... by kderbyma on Saturday July 17, 2021 @11:19PM (#27870554)
not necessarily true. obviously you would, but I know many people who hate the idea of working indoors. They don't toil in a factory per se, but they work outside and enjoy it.

the same time, if you have a good support group and work hard strenuous hours (like rig workers) the physical isn't that bad because you have the bouyant comfort of comraderie. but if you are in an office stuck next to someone whose values you cannot stand and clash with yours, and whose boss demands and harasses you all the time but you are stuck working paycheck to paycheck because of medical bills or something.....that's a reason to want a factory job for some.

Re:I'm a Frito-Lay Factory Worker. I Work 12-Hour Days, 7 Da... by Ancapistani on Sunday July 18, 2021 @02:12PM (#27875080)
> I think people would prefer to work in an office than a factory and trying to equate the two experiences is a little reductive.

Having worked for a couple of years as a commercial electrician, I would choose that in a heartbeat over “knowledge work”… if they paid the same.

Re:I'm a Frito-Lay Factory Worker. I Work 12-Hour Days, 7 Da... by sizzle on Sunday July 18, 2021 @06:52PM (#27877411)
I heard self employed electrician is a solid paying trade?
Re:I'm a Frito-Lay Factory Worker. I Work 12-Hour Days, 7 Da... by afpx on Sunday July 18, 2021 @09:41AM (#27872829)
Wait until they experience several years of continuous, high-level cortisol, and they'll believe in burnout.
Re:I'm a Frito-Lay Factory Worker. I Work 12-Hour Days, 7 Da... by dredmorbius on Saturday July 17, 2021 @11:46PM (#27870635)
Playing traumas and injuries off against one another is a sociopath's divide-and-conquor tactic.

Don't go there.

Re:I'm a Frito-Lay Factory Worker. I Work 12-Hour Days, 7 Da... by raydev on Saturday July 17, 2021 @10:37PM (#27870417)
I'm sure those people appreciate your thoughts.
Re:I'm a Frito-Lay Factory Worker. I Work 12-Hour Days, 7 Da... by teawrecks on Saturday July 17, 2021 @09:24PM (#27870114)
Oh yeah? Well I think about child slaves working in coal mines.
Re:I'm a Frito-Lay Factory Worker. I Work 12-Hour Days, 7 Da... by wkavey on Saturday July 17, 2021 @09:37PM (#27870166)
The whataboutism is real.
Re:I'm a Frito-Lay Factory Worker. I Work 12-Hour Days, 7 Da... by peakaboo on Sunday July 18, 2021 @02:06AM (#27871055)
The only thing they have incommon is that they refuse to change their lives. They don't make use of their own capabilities to make changes.

Specially the American culture has this idiotic thing where people are so afraid to called a failure or to be someone who quits. That's probably doing more damage than anything to yourselfs.

Re:I'm a Frito-Lay Factory Worker. I Work 12-Hour Days, 7 Da... by tluyben2 on Sunday July 18, 2021 @05:09AM (#27871650)
I am not sure that is true though. When I was really into 'becoming a big startup' etc, I was taking lessons from almost exclusively US founders. If things fail, go bankrupt and repeat was a main point. But I was in the EU and here (outside of the UK, at least as far as I have seen in practice) bankruptcy is a big taboo and you are judged by it. Instead of it being something you at least tried but failed, it is seen as a deep flaw over here and it can haunt you for a long time as bankruptcy information is public. Judges and lawyers here push you to keep going and avoid bankruptcy at all cost, but that seriously makes no sense in many cases which can be outside your control. My last one was 8 years ago: I pivoted and it has been good since then. After selling a company, I have to find something new and that seems to fail 1-3 times in short succession, not all with bankruptcy of course, and then a business picks up momentum.

I digress, but I think the US has a healthier attitude towards failure. Maybe I am wrong of course: I never lived there.

Re:I'm a Frito-Lay Factory Worker. I Work 12-Hour Days, 7 Da... by Hokusai on Sunday July 18, 2021 @06:18AM (#27871864)
> it is seen as a deep flaw over here and it can haunt you for a long time

When a company goes bankrupt it can bring down with it smaller providers and self employed workers. If you only lose venture capital, that is not so bad as it is part of the risk/reward. Why anyone would like to do business with an entrepreneur that uses bankruptcy to move on? I guess that in-advance payments could be a solution.

Bankruptcy is a last resort mechanism. It makes sense to let people move on when, without bad intention, they just failed a business. To make mistakes is human. But to abuse the privilege betting in high risk business and letting others pay for it seems immoral and not long-term sustainable for the economy.

Re:I'm a Frito-Lay Factory Worker. I Work 12-Hour Days, 7 Da... by tluyben2 on Sunday July 18, 2021 @11:36AM (#27873786)
Agreed, it should not be abused, but when it is inevitable it should be possible to move on and be some kind of stigma held over you.
Re:I'm a Frito-Lay Factory Worker. I Work 12-Hour Days, 7 Da... by watwut on Sunday July 18, 2021 @09:06AM (#27872614)
Bankruptcy means that somebody else ends up paying for what you spent on the business attempt. It means that people and companies who provided services don't get paid. It is not no harm done who cares event.

High risk businesses have a cost. Trying multiple of them and expecting others to swallow looses they did not caused sounds to me like abusing the system meant to get you out of genuine failure.

Re:I'm a Frito-Lay Factory Worker. I Work 12-Hour Days, 7 Da... by tluyben2 on Sunday July 18, 2021 @11:39AM (#27873815)
It is a last resort: the point was it should not put a permanent stigma on your head. I am not talking about people who abuse it: I am talking about doing your best and it does not work with no way out.
Re:I'm a Frito-Lay Factory Worker. I Work 12-Hour Days, 7 Da... by watwut on Sunday July 18, 2021 @12:59PM (#27874491)
> If things fail, go bankrupt and repeat was a main point.

This is not treating it as a last resort, this is "you rely on repeated bankruptcy" as a part of strategy. So they go into high risk business with expectation that someone else will pay if that fails. (Which is ok in only speculators loose money, but not ok if they end up not paying suppliers, sub-contractors etc for services.)

> Judges and lawyers here push you to keep going and avoid bankruptcy at all cost, but that seriously makes no sense in many cases which can be outside your control.

This is judges and lawyers treating bankruptcy as a last resort.

Re:I'm a Frito-Lay Factory Worker. I Work 12-Hour Days, 7 Da... by dragonwriter on Sunday July 18, 2021 @01:03PM (#27874522)
> Judges and lawyers here push you to keep going and avoid bankruptcy at all cost

Judges and lawyers probably do that very close to the extent that that is actually a requirement of the bankruptcy laws, which are intended as a last resort.

Re:I'm a Frito-Lay Factory Worker. I Work 12-Hour Days, 7 Da... by mgh2 on Sunday July 18, 2021 @07:00AM (#27872018)