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Re:Illinois first state to tell police they can't lie to min... by spamizbad on Friday July 16, 2021 @10:52AM (#27856839)
Simple: The attitude held by many in the law enforcement and justice system is that if you get swept up by police, you're probably guilty of something, so getting you off the street - even by coercing a false statement - makes the world a better place. The end justifying the means.

My neighborhood in Chicago has a cop enclave inside it and they are absolutely lighting up our neighborhood political discussion group irate about this law, talking about how many murders and rapists are going to go free.

Re:Illinois first state to tell police they can't lie to min... by watwut on Friday July 16, 2021 @12:31PM (#27858003)
How likely are they to solve rapes and murders? Afaik, rapes are solved very rarely. Murders are more likely to be solved, but the numbers are still not all that great.
Re:Illinois first state to tell police they can't lie to min... by Simulacra on Friday July 16, 2021 @11:44AM (#27857483)
Nobody likes to lose power, especially the police.
Re:Illinois first state to tell police they can't lie to min... by KittenInABox on Friday July 16, 2021 @11:36AM (#27857377)
Cops already let a ton of rapists go free as it is, including themselves. I don't expect a change.
Re:Illinois first state to tell police they can't lie to min... by wyldfire on Friday July 16, 2021 @11:12AM (#27857078)
> how many murders and rapists are going to go free.

How many murderers and rapists are minors? Probably not many.

Re:Illinois first state to tell police they can't lie to min... by colinmhayes on Friday July 16, 2021 @02:14PM (#27859329)
A lot of gang violence in Chicago is perpetrated by minors as initiation rituals because they get light sentences.
Re:Illinois first state to tell police they can't lie to min... by dionidium on Friday July 16, 2021 @11:35AM (#27857356)
Re:Illinois first state to tell police they can't lie to min... by AJ007 on Friday July 16, 2021 @12:01PM (#27857693)
Especially in Chicago where an astounding number of murders go unsolved, most of which are gang related.

While higher for whites, for African American victims, The close rate was near 20%, something most Americans may associate with Guatemala or Mexico - https://www.npr.org/local/309/2019/10/09/768552458/chicago-s...

Based on arrest histories of gang members and failures to prosecute even closed cases, one should assume that there are a large number of serial killers operating in Chicago, many of who started as minors.

While most middle and upper class Americans dismiss this as just gang members killing each other, so it’s no big deal, this clearly would not be tolerated in a largely white suburban setting, gang associated or otherwise.

Re:Illinois first state to tell police they can't lie to min... by rovolo on Friday July 16, 2021 @02:50PM (#27859784)
JFYI, you may be inferring "gang-caused" from "gang-related".

> An additional concern is the varying methods by which homicides are classified as “gang-related.” The most commonly used is the “member-based” approach, in which a homicide is classified as gang-related if the victim was and/or the perpetrator is a gang member.

[] https://nationalgangcenter.ojp.gov/about/faq#faq-5-how-are-g...

Also, tons of people (850k - 1.4m) are classified as gang members. The criteria for being a gang member is very broad and includes friend groups who've been arrested:

- The group has three or more members, generally aged 12–24.

- Members share an identity, typically linked to a name, and often other symbols.

- Members view themselves as a gang, and they are recognized by others as a gang.

- The group has some permanence and a degree of organization.

- The group is involved in an elevated level of criminal activity.

[] https://nationalgangcenter.ojp.gov/about/faq#faq-1-what-is-a...

[] 850k https://nationalgangcenter.ojp.gov/about/faq#faq-4-how-exten...

[] 1.4 million (page 9) https://www.fbi.gov/file-repository/stats-services-publicati...

If you calculate out the statistics, there're tons of people classified as gang members

{ latino: ~50%, black: ~30%, white non-latino: ~15% }

{ latino: 450k-700k, black: 250-400k, white non-latino: 125-200k }

(I don't know how they classify black latino vs white latino)

[] https://nationalgangcenter.ojp.gov/about/faq#faq-11-what-is-...

You can compare these numbers to the total population of males (90% of gang members are male) in the 14-24 age range (I excluded the 10-14 population even though it's included in the 12-24 age range). Classifying 10% of the population as being in a gang basically makes the label useless since you can then call almost anything "gang-related".

{ latino: 5m, black: 3m, white non-latino: 15m }

{ latino: ~10%, black: ~10%, white non-latino: 1% }

[] https://data.census.gov/cedsci/table?tid=ACSDT1Y2011.B01001I

[] https://data.census.gov/cedsci/table?tid=ACSDT1Y2019.B01001B

[] https://data.census.gov/cedsci/table?tid=ACSDT1Y2019.B01001A

Re:Illinois first state to tell police they can't lie to min... by spamizbad on Friday July 16, 2021 @07:55PM (#27862484)
It’s just an acedote, but: a friend of mine ended up in a gang database for identifying a gang member and stating he went to the same K-8 school as the gang member. This flagged him as someone with “known gang associates”. Years later, it almost cost him a job that conducted a background check, but he was ultimately able to dispute it.
Re:Illinois first state to tell police they can't lie to min... by wyldfire on Friday July 16, 2021 @12:05PM (#27857736)
Does this data include false convictions predicated on the same interrogations that are now illegal?