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Re:Humanity Has Flipped the Amazon Forest from Carbon Sink t... by danparsonson on Thursday July 15, 2021 @06:42AM (#27843304)
That small group of people are responding to demand aren't they?
Re:Humanity Has Flipped the Amazon Forest from Carbon Sink t... by yodelshady on Thursday July 15, 2021 @07:53AM (#27843694)
Contract killers are responding to demand, but we don't let them legally practice their trade.
Re:Humanity Has Flipped the Amazon Forest from Carbon Sink t... by danparsonson on Thursday July 15, 2021 @08:14AM (#27843835)
So people who hire contract killers are not to blame? I don't understand this argument - saying "it's not our fault the cattle/hardwood logging/mining companies cut down the Amazon" is nonsense, that's been widely known about for decades and we (collectively) just bought more and more of this stuff. It's their fault and ours.
Re:Humanity Has Flipped the Amazon Forest from Carbon Sink t... by ricardobeat on Thursday July 15, 2021 @08:26AM (#27843942)
Public policy is always the greatest factor for change at this scale. It’s extremely unlikely that you’ll effect change by individual action, even if you enlist a church-like following.
Re:Humanity Has Flipped the Amazon Forest from Carbon Sink t... by danparsonson on Thursday July 15, 2021 @08:59AM (#27844147)
Sure, and (in countries with functioning democracies) public policy responds to pressure from the public. It doesn't tend to change in the face of public apathy.
Re:Humanity Has Flipped the Amazon Forest from Carbon Sink t... by pessimizer on Thursday July 15, 2021 @10:03AM (#27844828)
And in countries with functioning mass media systems, the public responds to pressure from the tv.
Re:Humanity Has Flipped the Amazon Forest from Carbon Sink t... by danparsonson on Thursday July 15, 2021 @12:06PM (#27846307)
Indeed; isn't life wonderful. We can still choose to ignore the noise, or treat it with skepticism, do our own investigation etc. We're not forced to listen. But yeah, sure, the media also share some of the blame - they're people too. These are problems of humanity's making.
Re:Humanity Has Flipped the Amazon Forest from Carbon Sink t... by yodelshady on Thursday July 15, 2021 @11:19AM (#27845770)
Blame whoever you like. If we agree an activity is harmful, we usually pass laws to stop people doing it.

Other options can be applied, but only really if we don't agree, usually due to personal choice being relevant (some drugs, prostitution, seatbelts and helmets) or non-linear effects in both the utility and externalities (most pollution). Or both (cigarettes, alcohol, sugar).

Re:Humanity Has Flipped the Amazon Forest from Carbon Sink t... by beardbandit on Thursday July 15, 2021 @08:58AM (#27844139)
What good does blame do if the only thing that can potentially change the course is public policy?

I find it a lot harder trying to convince everyone to change versus forcing everyone to change through policy and enforcement through government.

Re:Humanity Has Flipped the Amazon Forest from Carbon Sink t... by perfunctory on Thursday July 15, 2021 @09:05AM (#27844191)
Well, how will that public policy and enforcement come about? We live in a democratic society, so the only way the government will enforce anything is if people demand it. And for people to demand it they need to be aware of the issue and what's causing it.
Re:Humanity Has Flipped the Amazon Forest from Carbon Sink t... by bjourne on Thursday July 15, 2021 @09:07AM (#27844211)
If buying makes you an accomplice, wouldn't buying, say, Chinese or Israeli goods make you an accomplice to those regimes' human rights abuses? How far do you think customer responsibility goes?
Re:Humanity Has Flipped the Amazon Forest from Carbon Sink t... by danparsonson on Thursday July 15, 2021 @11:58AM (#27846224)
If the production of those goods entails human rights abuses then yes, that's an analogous situation and buying those goods signals tacit acceptance of those crimes. I think applying that to buying anything (for example) Chinese-made is a bit more of a grey area (not to mention almost impossible to avoid now) but I personally try not to because a proportion of any money going in that direction ends up in the hands of the Chinese government.
Re:Humanity Has Flipped the Amazon Forest from Carbon Sink t... by chaps on Thursday July 15, 2021 @09:44AM (#27844596)
If you know that the product you're buying was built through human rights abuses, then absolutely that would make you an accomplice.
Re:Humanity Has Flipped the Amazon Forest from Carbon Sink t... by turbinerneiter on Thursday July 15, 2021 @06:43AM (#27843313)
Do they run ads?
Re:Humanity Has Flipped the Amazon Forest from Carbon Sink t... by Valmar on Thursday July 15, 2021 @07:44AM (#27843636)
The thing is, they're still responsible for cutting down the Amazon.

The "responding to demand" is a complete cop-out. Stop blaming the consumer for the actions of the greedy.

I wouldn't be surprised if the consumer very often isn't even aware of the sources of the materials for a lot of the stuff they buy. And it doesn't help that the consumer is all too often worried about stuff that immediately affects them, leaving them no time or energy to worry about stuff that's they're not immediately aware of.

It's like blaming the consumer for the ridiculous amount of plastic corporations use for packaging when that's all that's available 99% of the time.

Re:Humanity Has Flipped the Amazon Forest from Carbon Sink t... by ratww on Thursday July 15, 2021 @07:53AM (#27843691)
> It's like blaming the consumer for the ridiculous amount of plastic corporations use for packaging when that's all that's available 99% of the time.

Oh, that's a huge pet peeve of mine. In some places I lived it was impossible to buy produce without plastic bags because the stores force you to use their own bags. Also you have to put different vegetables on different bags. Otherwise you can't buy.

Sure one can argue that I could just boycott all the supermarkets in my city, but those people forget that I also have to fucking eat.

Re:Humanity Has Flipped the Amazon Forest from Carbon Sink t... by danparsonson on Thursday July 15, 2021 @08:16AM (#27843852)
I didn't say they're not responsible too; my point is that none of us needs cheap beef or hardwood or gold (do we?) and it's widely known what these companies are doing, so we can't just shrug our shoulders and say "we didn't cut down the forest".

Agree about the plastic though, that stuff is almost impossible to avoid.