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Re:Does free software benefit from ML models being derived w... by lmm on Tuesday July 13, 2021 @02:46AM (#27818205)
> If software weren't copyrightable, the GPL would have no power. But this is the outcome Stallman wanted! The GPL doesn't exist because copyright is good, it exists because software being copyrightable is what enables the concept of proprietary software in the first place.

This isn't really true when software is distributed in binary form - or, increasingly, run on servers and not distributed at all. The outcome Stallman wanted is that end users would have the ability to fix bugs, and add new features, in software they were using. If software is uncopyrightable then that removes one barrier, but not necessarily the most severe one; if you're relying on cloud software whose actual implementation kept as a trade secret (for example) then you still can't fix the problems that are disrupting your workflow.

> If Github's interpretation of copyright law holds, we can train a model on proprietary code and extract concepts without having to worry about being tainted. The proprietary code itself won't enter the commons, but the ideas it embodies will. No more worries about whether you're literally copying the code that implements an algorithm you want to duplicate - simply start typing and let the model remove the risk for you.

I think the closest analogy is to source code leaks like the famous Windows 2000 one. Would having such leaks be non-copyrightable help free software? I doubt it - even a deliberately released "code dump" is still difficult to learn much from, and even free-software projects have to put a lot of time and effort into documenting their code structure, having a contributor onboarding process and so on. The value of the GPL isn't that it forces people to make their raw code available - "hostile" (L)GPL code, like early WebKit or xlvns, has never made for successful projects - the value is that it creates an environment where people are actually cooperating on software development in a positive way. I think that's more likely to happen in a world where you can only use Copilot-like tools if your software is free than in a world where no such rule exists.

Re:Does free software benefit from ML models being derived w... by PeterisP on Tuesday July 13, 2021 @04:21AM (#27818666)
If software wasn't copyrightable, then a leak of (say) windows 8 would not "help free software" by allowing to learn or copy from that, but rather that it would instantly create a "free-windows-8" that could get maintained with security patches by the community, and companies could use windows 8 forever for free instead of buying windows 10 or 11 licenses.
Re:Does free software benefit from ML models being derived w... by lmm on Tuesday July 13, 2021 @04:28AM (#27818705)
Maybe. We'd have to figure out how to build it, and we'd have to rediscover the reasons for all of the seemingly crazy workarounds that were in the code as it currently is. In order to be able to add security patches etc. we'd first need to develop an understanding of the code, which while possible is not trivial. Even in the success stories of an open-source group adopting a previously proprietary codebase (e.g. OpenOffice, Mozilla), it takes a huge amount of work and years or decades to get the codebase to a level where it can attract outside contributors in the way that open-source-from-day-1 projects do. In fact I'm not sure I've ever seen such a project succeed without having a large base of paid contributors and outside funding to start with.