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Re:List price for stitches at Stanford Health Care: $93K by giantg2 on Sunday July 11, 2021 @11:06AM (#27801393)
"It does not occur to them that in a single-payer system, the incentive on everyone is to find ways to lower the cost of healthcare, while in a privatized healthcare system the incentives are reversed."

I don't think this is completely true. That greatly depends on the population. Regardless of single payer or private insurance, it's the underlying mentality of the people, or restrictions placed by the plan (which people then complain about). Many people think they have coverage, so they might as well use it. This can happen extremely often and for minor things. Think people going into the doctor or urgent care because they have cold symptoms (for less than a week) and want antibiotics. Most people want the easiest, most beneficial thing, like why diet and exercise when you can just take a pill for your type 2 diabetes, cholesterol, or blood pressure?

People don't think about costs during the most costly parts of life - end of life care. People want doctors to do "everything" to extend a person's existence, even if the outcome isn't likely to result in extended life. When the system does make choices about who to treat or how to treat, there is generally some public backlash (like NY letting many elderly die because they thought they needed to save the ventilators/beds for younger covid patients).

It's the views and intelligence of society that dictate behavior-based costs. This includes what restrictions are placed on both supply and demand sides.

Re:List price for stitches at Stanford Health Care: $93K by pizza234 on Sunday July 11, 2021 @11:33AM (#27801615)
> Many people think they have coverage, so they might as well use it. This can happen extremely often and for minor things. Think people going into the doctor or urgent care because they have cold symptoms (for less than a week) and want antibiotics. Most people want the easiest, most beneficial thing, like why diet and exercise when you can just take a pill for your type 2 diabetes, cholesterol, or blood pressure?

I think this is not realistic, and it's the opposite of my experience in relation to all the people I've known.

I know far more people that _should_ go to the doctor and don't, or do it after a long time (sometimes too long) rather than people who go to the doctor's too much.

I actually can't think of anybody that goes to the doctor "too much".

I've known only one case of person going to ER for simple cold symptoms (excluding the epidemic problems), as one is going to briefly checked, then made to wait for a very long time.

Re:List price for stitches at Stanford Health Care: $93K by giantg2 on Sunday July 11, 2021 @11:40AM (#27801677)
I've experienced both.

That example I gave about wanting antibiotics for a cold was something I've seen in real life, multiple times. There are hypochondriacs and other people who do go too often. They even have a code/name for people like that to let other doctors know by reading the file. I personally know of a guy who would call 911 just to get a ride in an ambulance. Eventually they stopped responding to him.

I do know people who probably should have gone to the doctors sooner too. I don't know that many of them, but it's possible they are more common in other areas.

"I've known only one case of person going to ER for simple cold symptoms"

I said urgent care. Urgent care is not the same as the ER. I know of people who go to the ER just for the free ride (Medicaid transportation provisions).

Re:List price for stitches at Stanford Health Care: $93K by mabbo on Sunday July 11, 2021 @11:49AM (#27801788)
> Many people think they have coverage, so they might as well use it. This can happen extremely often and for minor things. Think people going into the doctor or urgent care because they have cold symptoms (for less than a week) and want antibiotics

Do you have anything backing up that assertion?

I've been to the hospital feeling rotten on more than one occasion, and the doctor has said "You have the flu. Antibiotics won't help. Go home and get some rest." The doctor has no incentive to prescribe me drugs I don't need. There's always a few shitty doctors at clinics/hospitals who will over-prescribe, but the health care system has an incentive to find and stop those doctors- they're wasting taxpayer money.

Meanwhile in the US, the doctor would be financially incentivized to request a chest x-ray and prescribe whatever drugs might be helpful "just in case", fearing a lawsuit for doing too little and fearing their employer being mad at them for not up-selling to bring in more money.

Re:List price for stitches at Stanford Health Care: $93K by giantg2 on Sunday July 11, 2021 @12:03PM (#27801937)
It's anecdotes, generalizations, and informations from friends in healthcare. Which I'm guessing is similar to what your comment is based on (no sources).

I don't see how changing the healthcare system would implicitly change the torts. Medicare and Medicaid haven't changed that.

I also don't see how the single payer system would prevent over prescription or unnecessary treatment. These also occur under Medicare and Medicaid, as does substantial fraud.

Re:List price for stitches at Stanford Health Care: $93K by threatofrain on Sunday July 11, 2021 @11:09AM (#27801427)
How does that translate into the costs of stitches at Stanford Health Care?
Re:List price for stitches at Stanford Health Care: $93K by giantg2 on Sunday July 11, 2021 @11:15AM (#27801465)
What does the parent comment have to so with the cost of stitches at Stanford? I was responding to their generalized comment about costs, which also has very little to do with the cost of stitches at Stanford.

For one, people are using Stanford for the name and presumed quality of care (see tweet about price being much higher than other hospitals). That's shows patients are willing to spend more for treatment there. If you want to dig deeper into the cost, then we would need to know why the price is listed that high, as it is likely a mistake (also speculated in the tweets). It's not really a good idea to compare anecdote that is suspected to be a mistake against an unspecified cost in another system (implied by parent).

Re:List price for stitches at Stanford Health Care: $93K by aaomidi on Sunday July 11, 2021 @11:38AM (#27801659)
Sure, if this was happening in Iran, there would be people on the streets and head on sticks.

Americans are all too ready to blame their individual selves for problems caused by the state and capital. A lot of people from other countries would make their voices heard.

Although this isn't by coincidence either. The government has been feeding this individual responsibility line with various forms of propaganda mixed with racism to the people. It's also been silencing anyone who dared to question the underlying system entirely.

Reminder that the FBI sent letters to JFK aimed to getting him to kill himself.

Re:List price for stitches at Stanford Health Care: $93K by moistly on Sunday July 11, 2021 @01:07PM (#27802614)
> JFK

MLK Jr? Or maybe there’s more to the JFK story than I know…

Re:List price for stitches at Stanford Health Care: $93K by giantg2 on Sunday July 11, 2021 @01:42PM (#27802944)
There's a lot we don't know and likely never will. Just look into the thing that happened in the Venezuelan trip... if there's even info out there on it.
Re:List price for stitches at Stanford Health Care: $93K by aaomidi on Sunday July 11, 2021 @04:04PM (#27804160)
MLK sorry, not JFK.
Re:List price for stitches at Stanford Health Care: $93K by jhgb on Sunday July 11, 2021 @11:59AM (#27801893)
> Think people going into the doctor or urgent care because they have cold symptoms (for less than a week)

Uh...what else do you suggest that sick people should do? Be irresponsible and go to work or something?

Re:List price for stitches at Stanford Health Care: $93K by giantg2 on Sunday July 11, 2021 @12:04PM (#27801945)
Not sure what this comment is even about.
Re:List price for stitches at Stanford Health Care: $93K by jhgb on Sunday July 11, 2021 @01:21PM (#27802769)
Nor am I -- that's why I asked what it was about!
Re:List price for stitches at Stanford Health Care: $93K by giantg2 on Sunday July 11, 2021 @03:31PM (#27803929)
No, I mean I don't understand your point. People can stay home or work from home without needing to see a doctor when it's something like a common cold. It's stupid to go in for something basic and demand a treatment that won't even help.
Re:List price for stitches at Stanford Health Care: $93K by jhgb on Sunday July 11, 2021 @04:09PM (#27804191)
Who are you to diagnose people? Are you an MD?
Re:List price for stitches at Stanford Health Care: $93K by giantg2 on Sunday July 11, 2021 @06:42PM (#27805073)
Lol I'm not diagnosing anyone. Do you go to the doctor for every splinter you get? Do you demand antibiotics for a cold?

The point is that people decide when they need care, and some of those people are idiots.

Re:List price for stitches at Stanford Health Care: $93K by jhgb on Monday July 12, 2021 @02:23AM (#27807633)
Careful, there's some dangerous splinters out there. Fortunately I almost never work with wood.

And if I don't know that something is cold, I don't assume it's cold.

Re:List price for stitches at Stanford Health Care: $93K by giantg2 on Sunday July 11, 2021 @11:33AM (#27801617)
I wanted to add this link as an example of lifestyle and mentality effecting health costs in a population.

https://slatestarcodex.com/2020/04/20/the-amish-health-care-...

Edit: why continue to downvote without comments?