News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Casa Client Case Study: The Tinder Trap by Andrew_nenakhov on Friday July 09, 2021 @10:48AM (#27784246)
As a person living in an authoritarian state, the inability of the government or other authority to reverse a payment looks like a very attractive feature to me. Yes, it does have downsides. They just don't look as troublesome as being completely cut off all financial services with a simple stroke of a pen - which was experienced by many members of political opposition in my country.

"... but but Drugs! Criminals!" is what common people say at this point, to which I answer that drugs and crime flourished long before Bitcoin came to exist.

Re:Casa Client Case Study: The Tinder Trap by rstuart4133 on Sunday July 11, 2021 @06:16PM (#27804907)
Some things are near incomprehensible to us in the West.

One was what happened in Lebanon after the port explosion. An Australian who had married a Lebanese wife and moved to Lebanon reported the couple had decided the move was a bad idea, and were saving for a relocation back to Australia. Then the explosion happened, and the government literally ran out of money. The solution was apparently to raid the citizens savings accounts. From https://www.aa.com.tr/en/economy/lebanese-cannot-access-mone... :

> As a result of monetary policies implemented by central bank Governor Riad Salameh, people are currently unable to withdraw money even from local currency accounts, she added.

I don't know if their savings were permanently taken or merely "borrowed" for a while, but in any case the move to Australia was taken off the table when it looked most desirable.

In that scenario, the non-reversibility of Bitcoin transactions looks real attractive. I think it is fair to say crypto currencies look most attractive when the traditional trust networks we humans have crafted out of out of bankers, institutions and laws break down. While the crypto currencies have their weaknesses - the 51% attack is very real and the power consumption of Argentina can seem over the top, they provide a very concrete, measurable level of trustworthiness. You know what it will take to break it. The soft human trust networks can and do break in a myriad of ways, so often we given them a name - "black swan events".

Re:Casa Client Case Study: The Tinder Trap by anonu on Sunday July 11, 2021 @07:58PM (#27805543)
A haircut on savings accounts is comprehensible. It happened in Cyprus during the GFC. Inflation and/or negative interest rates (like in Europe) can also be viewed as a slow bleed on savings that are not invested in hard assets.
Re:Casa Client Case Study: The Tinder Trap by AdmiralAsshat on Friday July 09, 2021 @11:05AM (#27784424)
Re:Casa Client Case Study: The Tinder Trap by jayd16 on Friday July 09, 2021 @11:34AM (#27784736)
Is the public nature of transaction worrisome to you? Seems like that might also be a political issue.
Re:Casa Client Case Study: The Tinder Trap by prox on Friday July 09, 2021 @11:34AM (#27784738)
This is really the heart of the matter. On hand , yay, great we can subvert nasty states using cryptocoin, but also could undermine legitimate democracies. Swords cuts both ways. No one can deny the wave of ransomware and cryptocoin are not related.

How do we balance it so it can provide a net positive for humanity?

Re:Casa Client Case Study: The Tinder Trap by Andrew_nenakhov on Friday July 09, 2021 @12:07PM (#27785155)
Yeah, nobody ever asked for ransom before cryptocoins. /s

Legitimate democracy can't be undermined by an international currency not controlled be the government. In fact, it can be reinforced by it.

This issue is very similar to free speech: the good it does by making the government unable to silence political opponents far outweights the harm done by extremists and lunatics of all sorts.

Re:Casa Client Case Study: The Tinder Trap by user-the-name on Friday July 09, 2021 @12:13PM (#27785230)
People tried ransomware before cryptocurrencies. Payouts were minuscule compared to what cryptocurrencies are now enabling.

And no, it is not at all similar to free speech. Cryptocurrencies do massive harm - to the environment, to innocent people losing their money to scammers and frauds, and to the entire economy through enabling ransomware - and tiny, tiny amounts of good, which dwindle in comparison to the harm.

Re:Casa Client Case Study: The Tinder Trap by Andrew_nenakhov on Friday July 09, 2021 @02:13PM (#27786692)
Do you have some numbers to back these claims about massive harm? Without estimates this sounds like a typical fear-mongering.

If you provide numbers, we can compare this massive harm with some other types of massive harms.

As for tiny amount of good - reclaiming control over storage of value from The Man is such a tremendous achievement that will help us fight tyranny everywhere. Bitcoin donations was the only type of funding russian government failed to stop when it started to clamp down the opposition. For me, this capability trumps your concerns about environment and crime any day.

Re:Casa Client Case Study: The Tinder Trap by user-the-name on Friday July 09, 2021 @03:00PM (#27787256)
0.1% of all the power generated on the entire planet is being destroyed by bitcoin mining.

If that is not massive harm I do not know what is.

Re:Casa Client Case Study: The Tinder Trap by Andrew_nenakhov on Friday July 09, 2021 @03:18PM (#27787467)
Pffff, several orders of magnitude more energy is "destroyed" by dumb heating, because there is a lot of places where humans can't survive without warmth. It is only a matter of time when byproduct heat generated by mining will be used to heat water and homes.
Re:Casa Client Case Study: The Tinder Trap by user-the-name on Friday July 09, 2021 @03:20PM (#27787489)
There is a whole world of difference between heating homes across the planet, and running a network that can do 7 transactions a second.

A single home PC from 2004 could run the bitcoin network, but instead, it uses 0.1% of all the energy in the world.

It is by a wide margin the most ridiculously inefficient thing ever created. And it won't improve, because it is built that way by design.

Re:Casa Client Case Study: The Tinder Trap by Andrew_nenakhov on Friday July 09, 2021 @04:43PM (#27788267)
You are clearly missing the point of why it uses so much energy. It is the price of security, decentralisation and permissionlessness.

As for "7 transactions per second", sure, 7 on-chain transactions with the current block size. You don't need them for things like buying a cup of coffee. So this FUD is somewhat outdated.

Re:Casa Client Case Study: The Tinder Trap by user-the-name on Friday July 09, 2021 @05:30PM (#27788766)
Yeah, it's the price of that.

And that price is ridiculously, stupendously high. Much, much, much too high. It is in no way worth that price.

Re:Casa Client Case Study: The Tinder Trap by Andrew_nenakhov on Saturday July 10, 2021 @02:23AM (#27791534)
Maybe, for you. Probably you're lucky to live in a country that doesn't abuse its financial system. But others pay this price gladly, because bitcoin provides clear and undisputable value for them.
Re:Casa Client Case Study: The Tinder Trap by user-the-name on Saturday July 10, 2021 @06:39AM (#27792481)
Not for me. For the entire world. It is the entire planet that is paying the price. And the price is utterly overwhelmingly large, and you are forcing them to pay this price while getting nothing in return.
Re:Casa Client Case Study: The Tinder Trap by Andrew_nenakhov on Saturday July 10, 2021 @12:26PM (#27794503)
I just love this rethoric, 'overwhelmingly large', without specifics.

If it is not worth the price for you, nobody is forcing you to pay it.

Those that do, buy electric power from energy companies at the commercial rate. If you what to forbid people using bought power as they see fit, I suggest you start with yourself: do not use electricity, stop eating meat, stop traveling, stop using any items produced with electricity or burning trees.

Re:Casa Client Case Study: The Tinder Trap by user-the-name on Saturday July 10, 2021 @01:34PM (#27795038)
I am literally forced to pay it. I am living on this planet, and Bitcoin is helping destroy it. I can not opt out of paying this price. You are literally forcing me to pay it.
Re:Casa Client Case Study: The Tinder Trap by Andrew_nenakhov on Saturday July 10, 2021 @03:41PM (#27795891)
So, you are not going to start with yourself in saving the planet? These hypocrites always want others to do as they like...
Re:Casa Client Case Study: The Tinder Trap by user-the-name on Saturday July 10, 2021 @03:53PM (#27795980)
I am not using 0.1% of all the energy on the planet.

Bitcoin is.

Re:Casa Client Case Study: The Tinder Trap by Andrew_nenakhov on Sunday July 11, 2021 @11:12AM (#27801442)
Millions of people using bitcoin do use .1% of world's energy. I'm quite sure their other energy uses dwarf the power used for their transactions with a significant margin.
Re:Casa Client Case Study: The Tinder Trap by user-the-name on Sunday July 11, 2021 @11:57AM (#27801875)
You may be sure about that, but you're also completely wrong.
Re:Casa Client Case Study: The Tinder Trap by panarky on Friday July 09, 2021 @08:18PM (#27789914)
> Payouts were minuscule compared to what cryptocurrencies are now enabling

I see arguments of this form everywhere:

Law-abiding, tax-paying, responsible citizens use Tool X for legitimate purposes. Criminals also use Tool X for crimes. Therefore, we should ban Tool X.

Tool X = {cryptocurrency, encryption, firearms, drugs, etc.}

Tools that have legitimate uses should not be prohibited to law-abiding citizens.

Absolutely prosecute people who use the tool to hurt other people, but don't prohibit the tools that both bad people and good people use.

Re:Casa Client Case Study: The Tinder Trap by user-the-name on Saturday July 10, 2021 @06:40AM (#27792491)
Bitcoin hurts many, many people who never use it. Everyone who uses Bitcoin is contributing to this harm.