To clarify I am saying that some people on here are saying that California is anti-business/anti-tech and that is why people are moving out. I am saying the vast majority of people moving out of CA are just doing so because general cost of living isn't a great deal.

And almost by definition, if you move to California from somewhere else then "home" would be lower cost of living. Only exceptions are if you grew up in NYC, Boston, DC or a few other cities.

> Only exceptions are if you grew up in NYC, Boston, DC or a few other cities.

And pretty much all Hawaiian transplants.

Sure. But Hawaii is very small. Less than 0.4% of the US population. People have brought it up many times on this discussion thread.

If you live on the west coast, people fleeing the high COL of Hawaii is pretty common. Also Alaska. The west isn’t cheap, I think a lot of people would be surprised by prices in Montana (and not just because Californians are bidding up housing prices).

DC is pretty brutal some of the time. $$$

> And almost by definition, if you move to California from somewhere else then "home" would be lower cost of living. Only exceptions are if you grew up in NYC, Boston, DC or a few other cities.

Lots of California is cheaper than a lot more than just the few most expensive cities. California is not just the central cities of the Bag Area. Also, on a state level, HI has a higher cost of living than CA.

California is the third highest cost of living state:

https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/most-expens...

Everyone knows that California is not just LA and SF. But also Florida isn't just Tampa/Miami and Arizona isn't just Phoenix.

The big cities in CA are more expensive than the big cities in other states. The rural areas in CA are more expensive than the rural areas in other states.

Pointing out that the rural areas in CA are cheaper than the cities in other states is not compelling.

And for the record, Hawaii is seeing net out-migration too. At least its excuse for low cost of living is the fact that its an island that has to ship everything in.

Your link doesn’t support your argument. California’s COL index will be dominated by the fact that it’s one of the nations most urban states, with two of the largest and wealthiest metro areas.

Indeed, my experience is that there are parts of CA that aren’t significantly more expensive than my Midwestern home state.

I'm not trying to be that annoying - but are you sure the cheap parts of CA are comparable to the cheap parts of your state?

The cheapest parts of CA are probably going to be as expensive as right outside a Cleveland or Pittsburgh.

Certainly if one's goal is to live somewhere cheap while remotely-working at a high-paying tech company, you'd pay the highest state income taxes in California at the top bracket.

If we're just talking about random middle class (and below) people ability to retire in the same house they've lived in for decades, a few other states may be worse at the moment, e.g. NJ and CT and perhaps others raising property taxes fast. But the days of prop 13 protecting Californians from this same fate may not last forever.

Anecdotally as someone who's been doing some casual house-pricing over the last year around California, it is surprising how expensive a lot of the state -- including areas that were pretty cheap, in relative terms, just a few years ago -- has gotten for new home buyers. It's true that people kind of forget that there are cities outside the Bay Area and the LA Basin, but it's still dismaying how much a 1500 square foot, 3BR/2BA home that isn't of the manufactured variety is likely to set you back even in pretty remote towns in California.

Prop 13 is a huge incentive to park as much cash as possible in real estate and then never sell. Hugs market distortion. It's statewide.

Even in Oregon places like Hood River, Veneta, Bend and such have seen home prices surge.

Areas of Washington State like Arlington have seen this as well, it's crazy to see a dated 4 bed 3 bath house go for $800k when it is not within even supercommuting distance of any high paying employees.

> Prop 13 is a huge incentive to park as much cash as possible in real estate and then never sell.

Or cash out for a retirement where you aren’t living someplace subject to Prop 13 effect on the market, which is what a lot retirees leaving CA do.

Hawaii is not much of a defense as it has logistical reasons for its high cost, and anyway has a smaller total population than most major metro areas.

I'm not necessarily in the camp that thinks California isn't worth the cost. Though some undesirable location in the desert may indeed not be worth the taxes.

> Hawaii is not much of a defense

Since it is a place that people can come to California from, it is a very effective defense against the claim almost by definition, if you move to California from somewhere else then "home" would be lower cost of living.

> Anti-tech sentiment peaked in the early 2010s. Tech buses stopped being vandalized and the “die techie scum” thing mostly went away after 2015.

While we're comparing anecdotal evidence, I live in Los Angeles and count among my peers many who work in the Hollywood/Media industry. I can assure you the general sentiment among them toward Big Tech is overwhelmingly negative. I work in tech (albeit not a large company) and even I tend to agree.

I am guessing that the previous post is about the S.F. Bay Area anti-tech backlash peaking in early 2010s. I also think that the people who were expressing that backlash would not distinguish so much between Big Tech and Hollywood/Media. I think the peak after 2010 has more to do with economic stress following 2008 and the glaring wealth inequality.

A lot of this negative big tech sentiment isn’t backed by anything rational, it’s the same middle school or high school mentality of beating up nerds.

No, it's not. First, most "big tech" aren't nerds in the sense you mean, and they act more like the "cool kids" bullies in those movies than nerds. Second, the negative sentiment has more to do with wealth inequality and all that brings than any such petty rivalry as you describe.

Also to be quite honest software engineers aren't as smart or nerdy as they think they are in general. Very arrogant and egotistical, though, for sure.

I believe the primary reason for anti-tech sentiment in SF is gentrification: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gentrification_of_San_Franci...

Depends where you're looking. If you look online, anti-tech sentiment has never been stronger. These are of course, very different groups of people we're talking about.