News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Why I will never pursue cheating again by wisty on Sunday July 17, 2011 @08:05PM (#2774581)
A math majors can just copy the homework. 90% of it is mechanical, and 10% requires a "twist". You can copy the "twist", and the rest is easy. Or copy it all (in a slightly different format), and just claim that it's the same because it's ... well, the same. Unless you both make a mistake. But it's even easier than copying essays.

Still, the exam will be a problem. But if lots of students cheat, the lecturers will start making exams easier, because so many students struggle. And in Australia, there's a big belief amongst the education policy mandarins that exams are useless because they don't teach anything.

Still, most Math majors know their degree is useless if they don't learn anything, and they chose a brutally hard course with no set career path just to learn, so why bother cheating? But Engineering majors is another story.

Re:Why I will never pursue cheating again by Dove on Sunday July 17, 2011 @08:09PM (#2774595)
A math majors can just copy the homework. 90% of it is mechanical, and 10% requires a "twist".

That may be true in the lower level courses, but around 400 level, the work switches over entirely from calculations to proofs. Proofs are as widely varied and difficult to copy as essays, and are much harder to edit without screwing up unless you really understand them.

Re:Why I will never pursue cheating again by neutronicus on Sunday July 17, 2011 @08:24PM (#2774626)
I would say the proofs required for an undergrad math degree are "90% mechanical, 10% twist". If you have a general idea what a proof is supposed to look like, it's pretty easy to fill in the details.
Re:Why I will never pursue cheating again by wisty on Sunday July 17, 2011 @08:44PM (#2774675)
There's a continuum, just like in other subjects.

As I've said, many students self-enforce (somewhat - it's a continuum), because a Math degree that you didn't earn is barely worth the paper it's printed on.

With most students self-enforcing, the exams can still be rigorous. The 400-level courses can still be rigorous. And nobody will complain that the exams and 400 levels are too hard, because they still learnt enough to deal with them.

It's not a result of Math being "harder to copy". Math is easier to copy than an essay, because it's just not as unique. The difference is cultural. Most Math students don't want to cheat their way through, and so the professors are under no pressure to be soft.

Re:Why I will never pursue cheating again by justin_vanw on Sunday July 17, 2011 @08:09PM (#2774592)
I don't believe that 90% of majors copy homework. I can say I never saw any cheating at all on 400 level math homework at my university. I graded assignments for Number Theory for several semesters, and I can say I didn't see any cheating there either.

Generally the homework is just meant to give you a good bit of practice, there is no way to pass the class without passing the exams.

Re:Why I will never pursue cheating again by abduhl on Sunday July 17, 2011 @08:32PM (#2774650)
There are varying degrees of cheating. There is flat out copying, which this article addresses, and then there are the lesser degrees of cheating.

Having experienced upper, lower, and graduate level courses in math and engineering (as well as taught at the lower level) I can honestly say that the amount of people that directly copy another student's assignments is much higher than most people think. This type of cheating tapers off as you enter the higher levels. On the other hand, I find that the "helping another student out" or "group study" type of cheating probably occurs with a 75%+ frequency among all levels of academics.

The first type (plagiarism) is definitely cheating while the second type (group think) is most likely classified as cheating but never acted against. The fact that you didn't see any cheating in your Number Theory course could simply be due to the fact that the second type of cheating is much more difficult to spot unless you are intimately familiar with the subject material and solution methods.

Re:Why I will never pursue cheating again by justin_vanw on Sunday July 17, 2011 @08:45PM (#2774678)
The 'group study' thing is true, but often explicitly allowed by the professor. In the end the exams should sort it out, since homework is rarely worth more than a token amount of the total grade.
Re:Why I will never pursue cheating again by wisty on Sunday July 17, 2011 @09:37PM (#2774777)
It's only "token" if you score the same amount on all the assessment items. If you pick up a large portion of your marks on a homework component, it's not token for you.

A student gets 80% on a 25% weighted "token" homework component, 60% on a 25% "lab" component (due to copying large portions of someone else's report), and 30% on the 50% exam (there's always a few low apples). They pass with 50%.

The lecturer sees that the exam is too hard, and makes it easier the next year.

Re:Why I will never pursue cheating again by munin on Sunday July 17, 2011 @11:10PM (#2774949)
25% is not token, that's 1/4th of the course! most math classes i've taken homework has been from .5% to 5% of your grade!

if your homework is 1/4 of your grade in the class, that class is a "pass me" class. in some math classes the prof refuses to acknowledge that homework actually has a measurable effect on your grade, but he will use its presence to round up instead of down (i.e. 89.5 becomes a 90 instead of an 89)

Re:Why I will never pursue cheating again by wisty on Sunday July 17, 2011 @11:58PM (#2775054)
There are some classes where homework is more than 1/4 of the grade. Maybe not good math classes in the US.

Cheating doesn't happen when there's virtually no incentive. I stand by my point that you can cheat in Math homework more easily than equivalent non-Math homework, if you want to.

If 400-level Math coures are really impossible to cheat on, but there are 400-level non-Math courses that are possible to cheat on, I'd just argue that this is because they aren't really equivalent.