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Re:Ask HN: How do SMBs afford such expensive software engine... by denton-scratch on Monday July 05, 2021 @09:39AM (#27737853)
When I started, "software engineer" wasn't a job title. We did already have job-title inflation, though; when a programmer was promoted, they became an "assistant systems analyst", then a "systems analyst". The proper definition of a systems analyst at that time didn't even include programming computers!

So what's an engineer? Outside of software, an engineer is a professional - a member of a professional body, licenced to undertake specified design and construction work, and required to take regular training and re-licensing. It's like a physician; it's not some particular level of training or experience. Or skill - there are rotten physicians and excelent ones. But if they're not licensed, they're not a physician.

Can't we go back to calling programmers programmers?

Re:Ask HN: How do SMBs afford such expensive software engine... by trcarney on Tuesday July 06, 2021 @01:20PM (#27751546)
>Outside of software, an engineer is a professional - a member of a professional body, licensed to undertake specified design and construction work, and required to take regular training and re-licensing

Software engineering got its roots from electrical engineering and this isn't true for most electrical engineers. You only need to be licensed in a few subsets of electrical engineering (i.e. power production and distribution). All other areas don't require a license.

There is a difference between software engineers and programmers. I had it explained to me like this. If you spend more than 50% of your time programming, you can't call yourself a software engineer. A software engineer is supposed to spend most of their time designing and architecting a solution, testing assumptions, documenting the design process and conducting design reviews. This process is slow and tedious but if done correctly will save you a lot of headaches in the future.

Re:Ask HN: How do SMBs afford such expensive software engine... by Sevii on Monday July 05, 2021 @01:50PM (#27740246)
We can’t go back unfortunately. Software is getting more complex both technically and legally. Professional licensing is coming in the next decade or two.
Re:Ask HN: How do SMBs afford such expensive software engine... by denton-scratch on Monday July 05, 2021 @04:33PM (#27741567)
I'm totally cool with professional licensing for software engineers, and I agree it's coming (but "the next decade" seems optimistic - I've been expecting it for 30 years).

My gas-fitter is professionally-licensed. My electrician is professionally-licensed. My accountant is professionally-licensed. They have to be. But I'd hire a developer with a stellar record over one with a professional licence, unless the post was Compliance Officer or something.

I just don't expect such a licensed "software engineer" to be doing hands-dirty software development; they'll be managing the show. Hands-dirty developers need to know stuff you don't learn on training courses.