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Re:Change.org workers form a union by goodpoint on Thursday July 01, 2021 @02:00PM (#27702239)
Unions do much more than negotiating salaries. The whole software industry could benefit from:

- Setting quality standards. Ensuring people are properly trained and so on. E.g. Preventing Boeing from offshoring development of the MCAS to engineers paid $9 an hour.

- Setting ethical standards. E.g. Preventing car pollution "defeat device". Providing legal support for whistleblowers.

- Fighting ageism. It's provably widespread in SV.

- Fighting the no-poaching agreements. Many FAANGs were found to be colluding.

- Sighing exploitative immigration rules like the H1B "leash" that creates a class of underpaid workers.

> We'll switch from nimble meritocracy to a regulated and calcified follower

This is an absurd claim. Any human organization can be calcified or stay nimble. Unions are not different.

Re:Change.org workers form a union by sokoloff on Thursday July 01, 2021 @02:17PM (#27702450)
> Setting ethical standards. E.g. Preventing car pollution "defeat device"

Are VW engineers not part of a union/workers' council? If they are, um...

Re:Change.org workers form a union by Apocryphon on Thursday July 01, 2021 @03:11PM (#27703209)
https://www.engineering.com/story/video-what-were-vws-engine...

> So my theory of the sequence of events in a nutshell is this:

1. Engineers write code to get around a difficult design problem in order to keep the project moving forward.

2. The design team runs out of time to fix the problem and faces a classic dilemma: delay the program, at a cost of millions, or bury the code to buy time to work on a solution.

3. Once the timeline passes the point at which metal is cut, the die is literally cast and the engines are destined for production, no matter what. At this point, the only career saving option for the engineers involved is to say nothing, and just hope they can get away with it.

https://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/14/business/the-engineering-...

> The two men who have led Volkswagen and shaped its culture much of the past 20 years are Ferdinand Piëch, the chief executive from 1993 until 2002, and Martin Winterkorn, the chief executive from 2007 until his resignation after the scandal became public.

Mr. Piëch, a grandson of Mr. Porsche, is an engineer who made his name shaping Audi to take on BMW and Mercedes-Benz. His tenure came to be defined by his toughness and willingness to demote or dismiss people who were not performing well.

> Some critics argue that after 20 years under Mr. Piëch and Mr. Winterkorn, Volkswagen had become a place where subordinates were fearful of contradicting their superiors and were afraid to admit failure. “There is a self-righteousness which led down this terrible path,” said David Bach, a senior lecturer at the Yale School of Management who has followed the Volkswagen case.

Bernd Osterloh, chairman of the Volkswagen workers council, wrote a letter to the staff suggesting flaws in company culture. “We need in the future a climate in which problems aren’t hidden but can be openly communicated to superiors,” he wrote.

Re:Change.org workers form a union by Nicksil on Thursday July 01, 2021 @03:10PM (#27703185)
um... what? Finish your thought.
Re:Change.org workers form a union by sokoloff on Thursday July 01, 2021 @03:14PM (#27703259)
OK, since you asked: Why did their membership in a union not preclude this outcome, given that one of the purported benefits of unions is to prevent such outcomes?
Re:Change.org workers form a union by goodpoint on Thursday July 01, 2021 @03:51PM (#27703767)
This is like asking "why did greenpeace not preclude climate change".

Because that behavior is widespread across the whole industry, across many countries and across 4/5 decades:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defeat_device

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diesel_emissions_scandal

Unions, just like any other non-governative organization, are just as powerful as people support them.

Re:Change.org workers form a union by beerandt on Thursday July 01, 2021 @07:25PM (#27706152)
Based on this, it sounds more like you need professional engineering style licensing.
Re:Change.org workers form a union by goodpoint on Friday July 02, 2021 @05:03PM (#27716835)
The two things overlap very much.