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Re:HK media erase their archives amid rising arrests by naturalauction on Wednesday June 30, 2021 @08:17AM (#27687551)
>The only democracy is Switzerland. Switzerland solves the problem of populist tyrannical capture by having an Executive Council instead of a President.

But women weren't allowed to vote (in every canton) until 1991. There is a ban on new minarets being constructed (but not other tall buildings). The anti-immigration referendum couldn't be implemented as would have led to dramatic consequences for Switzerland's relationship with the EU.

From an outside perspective even Switzerland doesn't seem like a "true" democracy.

Re:HK media erase their archives amid rising arrests by vmception on Wednesday June 30, 2021 @10:39AM (#27689103)
Direct representation is true democracy.

Does democracy mean something else to you? I think you are confusing your indoctrination of good and inclusive with democracy. Or Vice versa.

I’ve seen that alot.

Re:HK media erase their archives amid rising arrests by wolverine876 on Wednesday June 30, 2021 @11:11AM (#27689512)
> I think you are confusing your indoctrination of good and inclusive with democracy.

People like to talk about good and inclusive as if they aren't universal values. Good is a value in every culture and religion; it's human nature; we aren't sociopaths. Just off the top of my head, there's the fundamentals of the Bible, 'love they neighbor, love thy god'. There's the Mandate of Heaven in Imperial China, which said only a good ruler keeps heaven's mandate and thus their power.

Inclusive is not only part of good, it's necessary to democracy: It requires respecting the votes and believing in the rights of everyone, and practically, freedom requires respecting your neighbor.

The question is, why work so hard to undermine good, including inclusiveness, democracy, and human rights? What an incredible heritage we've been given; what an optimistic history and what opportunity we have to build something even more amazing for the next generation. It takes an very cynical politics to try to undermine that - to give that up for yourself, for an entire generation, for our descendants. People from Washington to Lincoln to Churchill to Gandhi to MLK to all those who have died and struggled in service have worked to bequeath to us our free and good, in large part, society. With everything we've been given, what will we bequeath? Hate, authoritarianism, and climate change? What a shame our generation would be, among the others, if that was what we produced. The question is, what can we accomplish?

Re:HK media erase their archives amid rising arrests by vmception on Wednesday June 30, 2021 @11:48AM (#27689950)
These really aren’t definitions of democracy

Constitutions provide inclusiveness, constitutions are not unique to any system of governance, and can be the basis for any form of governance

Collaboration with the people willing to abide by the system isn’t unique to any system of governance, and is required by all systems

Democracy is just rule by majority

Re:HK media erase their archives amid rising arrests by wolverine876 on Wednesday June 30, 2021 @12:07PM (#27690222)
> Democracy is just rule by majority

It's not, by any meaningful definition, and not how people who study it think about it. Democracy's are rule by majority and, just as essentially, protection of minority rights. You need both or you have nothing. The Bill of Rights in the US Constitution is the best known example.

Re:HK media erase their archives amid rising arrests by vmception on Wednesday June 30, 2021 @01:00PM (#27690830)
Those are factors of constitutions and has nothing inherently to do with democracies or any system

Authoritarian dictatorships and single party countries have constitutions that give the same guarantees as seen in the Bill of Rights and other areas of the US Constitution

You are conflating the definition of democracy with ideals you were taught to respect. This is indoctrination by definition of accepting a set of beliefs uncritically.

Instead of trying to argue that point or differences between constitutional countries, you could just drop your expanded definition of democracy in favor of the rule by majority one.

Re:HK media erase their archives amid rising arrests by wolverine876 on Thursday July 01, 2021 @03:19AM (#27697037)
You should stop telling me what I think and why, stick to the issues, and stop lecturing people like you are an authority. You have no idea what I know or where I learned it, and it seems, have little real idea about these issues.
Re:HK media erase their archives amid rising arrests by vmception on Thursday July 01, 2021 @04:36AM (#27697343)
okay, or do argue the point

academics in democracies are viewing it uncritically too. democracy doesn't mean anything related to limitations of the government or a form of inclusivity that aspires to enfranchise everyone. it means rule of the eligible voting majority, just like when all states in the United States only allowed male land owners of Northwestern European descent vote, that was a democracy. All tweaks are adjectives, such as representative democracy, parliamentary democracy, etc.

I'm not responding to the pending questions you generated because they are aspirations from completely left field, used to support your warped aspiration view of a form of governance that has no specific name, that you dream of as right and correct which you also consider a non-existent inclusive democracy to be. I am just hoping you try to explain your view so that you see that on a standardized test, my answer would be the "more correct" choice than your. If you chose your own answer you would get points off.

Re:HK media erase their archives amid rising arrests by mucholove on Wednesday June 30, 2021 @09:26AM (#27688225)
Switzerland is not an inclusive place. It is a democracy.
Re:HK media erase their archives amid rising arrests by naturalauction on Wednesday June 30, 2021 @09:28AM (#27688250)
Perhaps, but I would cite some of these issues as examples of "populist tyrannical capture" that were not prevented by the Swiss system.
Re:HK media erase their archives amid rising arrests by wolverine876 on Wednesday June 30, 2021 @11:12AM (#27689525)
Then it's not a democracy, because the excluded are denied their self-determination.
Re:HK media erase their archives amid rising arrests by vmception on Wednesday June 30, 2021 @11:26AM (#27689696)
I’m not familiar with that definition

The newest definition I’m aware of is “the original 51% attack”

Re:HK media erase their archives amid rising arrests by throwaway292a9 on Wednesday June 30, 2021 @09:17AM (#27688108)
how so? citizens don't want more noisy minarets, the people that want the minarets can stay in the middle east.
Re:HK media erase their archives amid rising arrests by naturalauction on Wednesday June 30, 2021 @09:26AM (#27688231)
>citizens don't want more noisy minarets

The referendum wasn't on noise or the legality of minarets broadcasting sound though, it was on the structures themselves. Churches can still build steeples (or even noisy belltowers). I fail to see why the simple construction of a minaret harms anyone any more than say a steeple of a church of a different denomination. If anything it just seems like legislation to tell Muslims that they are not welcome in Switzerland.

Re:HK media erase their archives amid rising arrests by nojokes on Wednesday June 30, 2021 @09:39AM (#27688365)
If anything it just seems like legislation to tell Muslims that they are not welcome in Switzerland.

I think it is exactly that and this should be their right.

Re:HK media erase their archives amid rising arrests by nojokes on Wednesday June 30, 2021 @09:37AM (#27688352)
Maybe people enjoy church bells but not the calls from the minaret?
Re:HK media erase their archives amid rising arrests by naturalauction on Wednesday June 30, 2021 @10:01AM (#27688633)
But even minarets that don't make noise are banned. I also would not want to live next to a mosque that played loud noises 5-times daily as is done in many countries. But here in the UK most Mosques don't broadcast any noise at all despite having minarets. Like any other building, they have to apply for a permit if they want to do so.
Re:HK media erase their archives amid rising arrests by nojokes on Wednesday June 30, 2021 @09:42AM (#27688392)
I fail to see why the simple construction of a minaret harms anyone any more than say a steeple of a church of a different denomination.

Minarets do not build themselves. There would be very possibly some money and influence involved from countries that do not share Swiss people values.

Re:HK media erase their archives amid rising arrests by naturalauction on Wednesday June 30, 2021 @10:11AM (#27688760)
>There would be very possibly some money and influence involved from countries that do not share Swiss people values.

But then why not address that by banning foreign funding of construction of religious buildings? If Swiss Muslims want to build a minaret on their mosque I personally don't see the harm. But it's clear that others disagree.

Re:HK media erase their archives amid rising arrests by nojokes on Wednesday June 30, 2021 @07:27PM (#27694731)
I do not know what is really going on here but I can think of something that is similar. Imagine that Swiss communists want to raise a 10m high statue of Stalin. From one point of view it is just a statue but from another point of view it is a huge symbol that in many ways advocates against what Swiss people value.
Re:HK media erase their archives amid rising arrests by dang on Wednesday June 30, 2021 @06:46PM (#27694395)
Please don't post unsubstantive/flamebait comments to HN. Especially please don't cross into slurs. This one was borderline but it certainly fits the format that we don't want here.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Edit: if you could please stop creating accounts like this and definitely stop creating accounts to break the site rules with, we'd be grateful.