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Re:HK media erase their archives amid rising arrests by TeeMassive on Wednesday June 30, 2021 @12:20AM (#27684818)
> I think HK is a perfect case study of a line of fallacious thinking popular among westerners: the idea that peaceful protesting or rule-abiding political opposition is generally effective.

It's not fallacious. It has worked in the past and continue to work even to this day. Peaceful protests are proven to work more than violence; when they are allowed in the first place. Violet uprisings rarely lead to positive change and mostly end up in either worse conditions or disaster.

Most Western governance are inheritors of violent revolutions of some sort, which people tend to be aware of but take for granted. The US has made it a point to elevate the right to bear arms as a natural right. The UK on the other hand arrest people for tweets. HK never had guns to begin with.

Re:HK media erase their archives amid rising arrests by naniwaduni on Wednesday June 30, 2021 @12:46AM (#27684957)
> Peaceful protests are proven to work more than violence;

Are they? Remember, a successful violent "protest" is often just retroactively called by a different name, like "revolution" or "coup d'état", it's not as if they're fundamentally different things. How do you compare those to successful peaceful protests?

Re:HK media erase their archives amid rising arrests by ILMostro7 on Wednesday June 30, 2021 @01:01AM (#27685060)
Lol How do you go from a protest to a coup d'état?
Re:HK media erase their archives amid rising arrests by fogihujy on Wednesday June 30, 2021 @03:17AM (#27685839)
There was a revolution or two that started as simple protests...
Re:HK media erase their archives amid rising arrests by TeeMassive on Wednesday June 30, 2021 @01:12AM (#27685124)
There are many fundamental difference between standing armies and/or organized militias and violent mobs in terms of scale, martial effectiveness, negotiations, treaties and post-conflict continuation.

Mobs don't win wars, they merely destroy and the rest is left to fate, often with disastrous results(see Libya as an example).

Mobs can't sit at the negotiation table

Mobs can't agree to treaties and enforce them

Mobs can't form proper functioning and recognized government.

Re:HK media erase their archives amid rising arrests by guerrilla on Wednesday June 30, 2021 @01:22AM (#27685188)
> Mobs don't win wars, they merely destroy and the rest is left to fate

You seriously can't think of any counterexamples to that? Like maybe some French (contemporary and historical), German or Russian counterexamples?

Re:HK media erase their archives amid rising arrests by ceilingcorner on Wednesday June 30, 2021 @01:27AM (#27685215)
In all three of your examples, mobs didn’t win any wars. Organized political factions won wars, which usually came after a period of chaos.

People always forget that the Russian Revolution was followed by war between the Whites and the Reds.

Re:HK media erase their archives amid rising arrests by naniwaduni on Wednesday June 30, 2021 @06:24AM (#27686877)
"Mobs don't win, organized political factions win" also characterizes the outcomes of peaceable protest, so what's your point?
Re:HK media erase their archives amid rising arrests by ceilingcorner on Wednesday June 30, 2021 @08:00AM (#27687443)
I was replying to the parent comment.