News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Mexico's Supreme Court has decriminalised the private use... by foxes on Monday June 28, 2021 @10:15PM (#27670925)
Because x bad thing is allowed we should also allow y? Ridiculous. I agree it shouldn’t be criminal and having people put into jail over small amounts. But if anything tobacco and alcohol should be restricted too.
Re:Mexico's Supreme Court has decriminalised the private use... by enchiridion on Monday June 28, 2021 @10:18PM (#27670945)
Are people really so inept that they need the government up tell them what they can and cannot do with their own bodies?

Study and publicize the risks, the rest should be left to personal decisions.

Re:Mexico's Supreme Court has decriminalised the private use... by edgyquant on Monday June 28, 2021 @11:17PM (#27671324)
I agree about the use of cannabis but if you’ve ever lived next to a meth den I don’t think you’d see that and think, “we should legalize this.” Pot heads are one thing, and they don’t usually commit crimes just because they are high, but hard drugs are a completely different ball game that are a lot more nuanced than, “what you do with your body,” meth heads kill people all the time due to the paranoia associated with the drug.
Re:Mexico's Supreme Court has decriminalised the private use... by dragonwriter on Monday June 28, 2021 @11:21PM (#27671363)
> I agree about the use of cannabis but if you’ve ever lived next to a meth den I don’t think you’d see that and think, “we should legalize this.”

“Meth dens”, like “crack houses”, are a thing which prohibition may punish, but does not prevent, but instead creates.

Re:Mexico's Supreme Court has decriminalised the private use... by edgyquant on Monday June 28, 2021 @11:26PM (#27671397)
But how would they punish it if it becomes legal to gather in your front yard and inject methamphetamine?
Re:Mexico's Supreme Court has decriminalised the private use... by gbear605 on Monday June 28, 2021 @11:37PM (#27671469)
The same way we already punish people who gather in places they’re not supposed to be in and drink. Legalizing a drug doesn’t mean legalizing all activities relating to it.
Re:Mexico's Supreme Court has decriminalised the private use... by dragonwriter on Tuesday June 29, 2021 @12:47AM (#27671873)
How do we punish public drunkenness when alcohol is legal?
Re:Mexico's Supreme Court has decriminalised the private use... by edgyquant on Tuesday June 29, 2021 @05:36PM (#27682008)
We don’t punish people who sit in their house or their yard and get drunk. I’m not talking about public drunkenness I’m talking about meth dens and how they lead to a serious rise in crime in the surrounding neighborhood.
Re:Mexico's Supreme Court has decriminalised the private use... by rantwasp on Monday June 28, 2021 @11:23PM (#27671380)
if meth was legal and readily available, would you still have this issue? slap a big warning: causes death. Have programs in place to help people with addiction and let things work themselves out
Re:Mexico's Supreme Court has decriminalised the private use... by edgyquant on Monday June 28, 2021 @11:27PM (#27671410)
The thing is that there are programs in place right now for addiction but people who are hooked on meth don’t want that help. Maybe it’s because I grew up in Meth country and saw more than half of my childhood friends end up in prison or in the streets because they’re hooked on the stuff. Maybe it’s too close to home for me to be reasonable about this but I’ll never agree that meth or heroin should be decriminalized.
Re:Mexico's Supreme Court has decriminalised the private use... by rantwasp on Monday June 28, 2021 @11:33PM (#27671453)
that's your opinion and it's okay to have that opinion. My opinion is that the government should not tell me what I'm allowed to do with my body (or even worst arrest me for doing stuff to my body). If I literally want to kill myself it should be my choice - How ridiculous would it be if we arrested people that attempted suicide? It's at least as ridiculos trying to end up in prison for an addiction.

Also, completely tangential. But poverty is the thing that really kills people (including driving them to seeking the thrills of hard drugs). I can almost guarantee that there is a correlation between income level/standard of living and meth zones.

Re:Mexico's Supreme Court has decriminalised the private use... by stjohnswarts on Tuesday June 29, 2021 @12:11AM (#27671673)
That's fine but that's not what the majority of us believe (that hard/extremely addictive and life destroying drugs should be banned) and you will just have to deal with that or find a libertarian paradise in some far off country. Pot isn't one of those drugs though, it's pretty harmless or at least no more destructive than alcohol.
Re:Mexico's Supreme Court has decriminalised the private use... by rantwasp on Tuesday June 29, 2021 @12:40AM (#27671844)
we're getting philosophical here. but I believe that your freedom should be YOUR freedom.

Does that mean you should do stupid things and ruin your life? Probably not. But this is not about doing stupid things. It's about having the option and the option not being constrained by arbitrary things (ie who gets to decide that A is good and B is bad, A is okay, B is life destroying)

also, one thing to consider: It's mostly non-controversial that pot is harmless nowadays. The more you go back in time, the more pot was painted as wrecking your life, a gateway drug, etc. So a lot of what the effect of a drug are can (and is) hearsay + fear-mongering.

Re:Mexico's Supreme Court has decriminalised the private use... by foxes on Tuesday June 29, 2021 @01:00AM (#27671967)
How is it not controversial? Most studies seem to suggest the effect is not known.

[0] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4337025/

[1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4827335/

Definitely seems to suggest there are potentially harmful side effects.

Re:Mexico's Supreme Court has decriminalised the private use... by rantwasp on Tuesday June 29, 2021 @01:08AM (#27672020)
look at: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4337025/table/T... those studies are basically jokes.

ever take tylenol? the pain killer that is available OTC virtually everywhere? do you know what happens if you take double the max recommended dosage? liver failure. for something that's OTC.

for all intents and purposes weed is harmless. In WA, most people that I know have tried weed and some of them are actually doing it on a regular basis. I have yet to hear of any [mental] health issues.

If you do something all day everyday you are dealing with something else and the drug is a way of escapism.

Re:Mexico's Supreme Court has decriminalised the private use... by foxes on Tuesday June 29, 2021 @01:20AM (#27672098)
Again, the argument that because bad x exists and is allowed freely does not mean y should be allowed. You can not use transitive arguments for this. I would think that pain killer should also be restricted. Anecdotal small sample sizes are also not convincing either way, I do not think we should be so cavalier with allowing or disallowing.
Re:Mexico's Supreme Court has decriminalised the private use... by rantwasp on Tuesday June 29, 2021 @02:10AM (#27672423)
my point is that everything should be allowed and the decision should be at a personal level. that’s freedom! literally the definition of freedom. you can do whatever you want as long as you don’t restrict others freedom
Re:Mexico's Supreme Court has decriminalised the private use... by foxes on Tuesday June 29, 2021 @02:26AM (#27672523)
I respectfully disagree, society does not function like that. We need constraints. It might not restrict others freedoms entirely, but there are still consequences for actions, things do not happen in a vacuum.
Re:Mexico's Supreme Court has decriminalised the private use... by enchiridion on Tuesday June 29, 2021 @01:16PM (#27678847)
Things indeed do not happen in a vacuum. Each situation is heavily influenced by the complicated and nuanced circumstances surrounding it.

Do you think a few hundred people in the central government should decide how to handle those situations, or the people most intimately familiar with the details?

Re:Mexico's Supreme Court has decriminalised the private use... by foxes on Tuesday June 29, 2021 @12:42AM (#27671846)
I believe alcohol is already pretty destructive. It’s been shown no level is really safe, it causes brain damage, although as to how much it’s not clear. I think weed is fairly similar. Tobacco gives you lung cancer. I don’t think we should just let people destroy themselves. We want a caring society.
Re:Mexico's Supreme Court has decriminalised the private use... by pmoriarty on Tuesday June 29, 2021 @03:19AM (#27672849)
"I don't think we should just let people destroy themselves. We want a caring society."

The problem is that, like the old "we had to destroy the village to save it" cliche from Vietnam, the War on Drugs destroys the very lives it purports to protect.

The illegality of drugs means that the drugs people buy are either not what they're sold as or are of an unknown purity, which leads to overdoses. Such unintentional overdoses from mistakes in gauging substance or purity would virtually disappear if drugs were legal.

The organized crime that runs the drug trade kills many people and has a corrosive effect on our justice system and government and that of many other nations. That too will be greatly reduced with legalization.

Arrests of users, killing of them and their families by police during raids, imprisonment, separating families and ruining lives by all of the above and on top of that criminal records for possession are yet another horrific consequence of the War on Drugs.

Rights are thrown away, police power and surveillance of the population is ratcheted up to ever greater levels in the name of fighting the WOD. Billions of dollars are wasted and billions more given to organized crime instead of paid as taxes to governments.

And on top of it all the WOD is not even effective. People continue to use drugs anyway, if they want to.

So what is the point?

Re:Mexico's Supreme Court has decriminalised the private use... by rantwasp on Tuesday June 29, 2021 @12:55AM (#27671935)
we should educate/inform people and let them make their own choices.

we want a caring society but not at the cost of restricting personal freedoms

Re:Mexico's Supreme Court has decriminalised the private use... by throwawayboise on Tuesday June 29, 2021 @02:09AM (#27672413)
> Tobacco gives you lung cancer.

And smoking weed doesnt? They are both plants.

Re:Mexico's Supreme Court has decriminalised the private use... by samatman on Tuesday June 29, 2021 @02:58AM (#27672728)
Unclear actually.

The content of cannabis smoke is quite different from tobacco smoke, and in particular it contains a lot of terpenes, and the cannabinoids themselves, which are potent antioxidants.

Last I checked, cannabis smoke was implicated in COPD, but doesn't appear to contribute to lung cancer. That was at least a decade ago, however.

Re:Mexico's Supreme Court has decriminalised the private use... by foxes on Tuesday June 29, 2021 @12:37AM (#27671826)
What you do with yourself does not always happen in a vacuum. Maybe if you are in the cabin in the wild growing your own pot who cares, but for the rest of society I think we should consider second order effects. Society does already dictate what you can do with your body. You can’t drink and drive. I don’t think we want a society that encourages or turns a blind eye to people to harming themselves.
Re:Mexico's Supreme Court has decriminalised the private use... by enchiridion on Tuesday June 29, 2021 @01:06PM (#27678718)
Well in many jurisdictions in the US it is only illegal to drink and drive on property the public has ready access to. If someone is driving drink on sufficiently private property, then that's a risk the people who are choosing to be there are willing to take on. Would I personally want to be involved? Definitely not, but it's not up to me to decide for others.

And quite literally everything is harmful in one way or another, it's just a matter of degrees, and people should be allowed to make their own decisions.

Re:Mexico's Supreme Court has decriminalised the private use... by username90 on Tuesday June 29, 2021 @03:37AM (#27672980)
Yes they are. There is a reason we have a law saying people can't be in a car without seatbelts and so on, it is because people are dumbasses who will hurt themselves. So it being legal for you and everyone else means a ton of people will get hurt just by using it themselves. Are you really fine sacrificing others just to get your fix?
Re:Mexico's Supreme Court has decriminalised the private use... by enchiridion on Tuesday June 29, 2021 @12:57PM (#27678580)
I wear a seatbelt because I understand what will happen if I don't, not because of a law.

That's a strawman, but I'll roll with it. Yep, totally fine with it (although I have not used any illegal drugs). Mostly because there are massive amounts of people currently using prohibited drugs. Why not study and make known the risks instead of hopelessly trying to directly control everyone's actions?

At a higher level, I do not believe in any authority's ability to consistently produce a net benefit over long periods of time by deciding what substances are legal. I do however think that the markets will figure it out pretty quickly.

Re:Mexico's Supreme Court has decriminalised the private use... by cartoonworld on Monday June 28, 2021 @10:19PM (#27670955)
Marijuana certainly shouldn't be legalized because tobacco is legalized. Marijuana should be legalized because it is relatively benign, easily cultivated, useful, interesting and dare I say pretty good.
Re:Mexico's Supreme Court has decriminalised the private use... by pmoriarty on Monday June 28, 2021 @10:36PM (#27671077)
No, it should be legal because it's no one else's business but the adult who's changing their consciousness as to what they put in to their body, as long as it doesn't harm anyone else.

Just like if an adult wants to go skydiving, which is a risky activity, it should be their choice.

Re:Mexico's Supreme Court has decriminalised the private use... by cgrealy on Monday June 28, 2021 @10:50PM (#27671150)
Tobacco and alcohol are restricted. Almost every country has rules around how old you must be to purchase or consume them, where you can purchase them, where you can consume them, how much you can consume before driving (in the case of alcohol), etc.

There's no reason we can't apply the same reasonable controls to cannabis.

Re:Mexico's Supreme Court has decriminalised the private use... by rantwasp on Monday June 28, 2021 @11:25PM (#27671391)
The same control ARE applied to cannabis. You cannot drive high and claim you're not drunk. The punishment (at least in my neck of the woods) is basically the same.
Re:Mexico's Supreme Court has decriminalised the private use... by pmoriarty on Tuesday June 29, 2021 @03:24AM (#27672887)
This is interesting. How would they even know you're high on cannabis while you're driving?

As far as I know there's no way to tell. Last I checked the available drug tests could only tell if you've used cannabis in the last 30 days, not if you used it on the day you were driving.. and even if you had that doesn't mean you were high at the time you drove.

Drug tests should really be replaced with performance tests.

It's none of their business if you're high. What matters is if you can drive safely.

Re:Mexico's Supreme Court has decriminalised the private use... by rantwasp on Tuesday June 29, 2021 @10:45AM (#27676546)
huh. so at least in WA the law says >5 nano-grams if THC per milliliter in blood can get you a DUI.

Seems that you are right that there is no reliable way of testing for this (and the 5 nanograms might have been pulled out of someone’s a…ttic when the law was written).

https://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=46.61.502

Re:Mexico's Supreme Court has decriminalised the private use... by cgrealy on Tuesday June 29, 2021 @06:41AM (#27674063)
You missed my point.

Cannabis is way more restricted and controlled than tobacco or alcohol in most places. If you buy cigarettes or alcohol, cops won’t bother you. If you’re caught with cannabis, you are potentially facing criminal charges.

Re:Mexico's Supreme Court has decriminalised the private use... by saiojd on Monday June 28, 2021 @10:30PM (#27671035)
You're getting buried because of your political opinion, but I agree that "there is no reason for weed to be illegal when tobacco is legal" makes no sense whatsoever... I thought we were supposed to be nerds that overvalued logical thought here ;)
Re:Mexico's Supreme Court has decriminalised the private use... by jp0d on Tuesday June 29, 2021 @02:56AM (#27672712)
Yeah, you're probably correct. I think a lot of people are very liberal about their downvoting privilege! I'm happy for someone to not agree with me but I don't like being flagged or downvoted just because someone doesn't like my opinion. I think downvotes should be for comments that are racist or abusive in nature. A little bit of sarcasm should be okay!
Re:Mexico's Supreme Court has decriminalised the private use... by jp0d on Monday June 28, 2021 @10:18PM (#27670948)
While I agree with you partially, this is a slippery slope. Sugar and processed food are really bad for you too. Should we start banning or restricting access to those too?
Re:Mexico's Supreme Court has decriminalised the private use... by jborichevskiy on Monday June 28, 2021 @10:26PM (#27671004)
FWIW Mexico does attempt to label sugary snacks with warning labels, more than in the US at least
Re:Mexico's Supreme Court has decriminalised the private use... by stjohnswarts on Tuesday June 29, 2021 @12:12AM (#27671683)
Compared to meth, crack, oxy, etc they are relatively safe so no we don't need to ban them.
Re:Mexico's Supreme Court has decriminalised the private use... by jp0d on Tuesday June 29, 2021 @01:53AM (#27672287)
That's the problem. Compared to weed these are highly addictive and cause a lot of harm to the users. Oxy is easily prescribed by doctors whereas there is a taboo against cannabis. It should be the opposite.