Cryptocurrencies are far more democratic: every time a transaction is submitted the network votes on whether or not it is valid using consensus mechanisms like proof of work or proof of stake.
Fiat currencies are far less democratic: we can only vote for the people that will control them, not for what they will actually do with the currency. In the UK we do not vote for any positions in the Bank of England.
> Monetary and fiscal policies can be used to control the health of the economy. It's part of a wide system that also offers education, medical care, transportation, and many other utilities for actual people. Crypto offers what, exactly?
Monetary and fiscal policies can still operate without control of the currency, see Eurozone members having local policies. All it means is that they can’t arbitrarily print the currency.
> NFTs are worthless garbage nobody can legislate. Digital barcodes. Nation states have robust IP laws to protect and transfer ownership.
You misunderstand NFTs. It is not about intellectual property, it is about property. I can prove I have ownership of any token instantly and trustlessly.
> Crypto wastes energy. It also wastes human brains that could be solving more pertinent problems.
Many cryptocurrencies have negligible energy usage even over the entire network: see Nano. Even in Bitcoin, how is the energy usage a “waste”? It is holding the entire network together.
And with human brains, cryptocurrency research has had very beneficial impact in other fields, see for example Monero’s development of RingCT and Bulletproofs+. And that is ignoring the fact that these brains are reshaping our entire financial infrastructure.
> Quantum computing will render all of the blockchain useless anyway.
Not really. Even if quantum computing was possible now Bitcoin would still be usable. And advancements are being made across all cryptocurrencies to secure them better.
When the votes take money or resources, that's not democratic.
> Fiat currencies are far less democratic: we can only vote for the people that will control them, not for what they will actually do with the currency. In the UK we do not vote for any positions in the Bank of England.
It's still representative democracy. You broadly know what politician's platforms are with respect to taxes, priorities, etc. If they do stuff you don't like, you vote them out.
> Monetary and fiscal policies can still operate without control of the currency, see Eurozone members having local policies. All it means is that they can’t arbitrarily print the currency.
So you lose your largest levers so you can make rich cryptowhales happy. Not good.
> You misunderstand NFTs. It is not about intellectual property, it is about property. I can prove I have ownership of any token instantly and trustlessly.
I don't respect your ownership. Neither does anyone else. When your keys leak - and they will -, you don't own it anymore. I'll much sooner use actual laws with records to buy my next house or car.
> Many cryptocurrencies have negligible energy usage even over the entire network: see Nano.
None of the major cryptocurrencies do despite claiming they would for years. I'm not holding my breath.
> Even in Bitcoin, how is the energy usage a “waste”? It is holding the entire network together.
When it's a network that many of us think is pointless, we're simply scratching our heads at this.
> Monero’s development of RingCT and Bulletproofs+.
More crypto junk and not a cure for cancer.
> And that is ignoring the fact that these brains are reshaping our entire financial infrastructure.
It doesn't need changing! We're increasingly building tools to serve the underbanked, and we need the government to continue with AML, KYC, etc. They serve a very valuable purpose of stopping terrorism, preventing bribery, etc.
> Not really. Even if quantum computing was possible now Bitcoin would still be usable.
If Satoshi's keys, or the Winklevoss keys, or Coinbase keys leak, it's game over forever.
> And advancements are being made across all cryptocurrencies to secure them better.
Better hurry. I don't think you realize the clock is ticking. If quantum beats you, it's game over. The network has no value when the trust and ownership can't be proven. Once crypto can attack keys, parties can't prove they own the address. Even if the network is forked or reverted, it's forever broken.
It is by definition democratic.
> It's still representative democracy
Sure, I wasn’t claiming it isn’t democratic just that it is less democratic.
> If they do stuff you don't like, you vote them out.
Not always, for example the Bank of England’s monetary policy committee is not elected.
> I don't respect your ownership.
Good for you however I don’t actually care whether or not you respect it. For example with concert ticket NFTs the only person that needs to respect it are the organisers, not you.
> When your keys leak - and they will -, you don't own it anymore.
That is intended.
> None of the major cryptocurrencies do despite claiming they would for years.
What do you count as major? Nano is in top 100 by market cap.
> When it's a network that many of us think is pointless, we're simply scratching our heads at this.
I think that retail stock market trading is pointless however I respect its ability to consume energy as part of the free market.
> More crypto junk and not a cure for cancer.
Sounds like you are very prejudiced and have made no effort to research these technologies before calling them junk and wastes of energy.
> It doesn't need changing!
I’m sure nobody thought banking needed changing in the 1900s before it became digitally available. Researching new technology can almost never be bad.
> We're increasingly building tools to serve the underbanked, and we need the government to continue with AML, KYC, etc. They serve a very valuable purpose of stopping terrorism, preventing bribery, etc.
Yes and we still can, and are doing the same with cryptocurrencies.
> If Satoshi's keys, or the Winklevoss keys, or Coinbase keys leak, it's game over forever.
It’s only possible to crack someone’s private key using quantum computing if they have spent from that wallet before (as this is the only time at which an accounts public key becomes public). Most of those accounts you have listed have never spent any of their coins so it would not be possible to crack their accounts.
Crypto isn’t the new fiat, it’s the new gold.
Most of the world does not have a robust nation state ensuring identities and ownership. It’ll be a massive boost to the world economy.
NFTs will enable new interconnected markets that we haven’t even dreamed of yet.
Not all crypto wastes energy, look into Cardano.
Quantum computing will change everything, this isn’t exclusive to blockchains.
There’s far more good that’s going to come out of this than bad with people gambling. The gambling is bringing attention to a major advance for humanity. Any press is good press in this case.
How? My understanding of it is that it's a JSON document that points to a URL (which is just some webserver 99% of the time).
How does this allow anyone to do anything novel that couldn't be done with a centralised database and an API?
This conversation, and entire confusion around the utility of blockchains eerily reminds me of the now infamous challenge to Drew Houston that Dropbox was nothing more than a simple FTP with a share.[0] That's right, but also very wrong, missing the big picture.
You can do that with a central clearing house much easier. In fact, then you'd be covered by US and probably international law against theft.
> This conversation, and entire confusion around the utility of blockchains eerily reminds me of the now infamous challenge to Drew Houston that Dropbox was nothing more than a simple FTP with a share.
You don't know the future, and this is a cop out of an argument.
I'd be willing to bet you $1000 that the crypto market fizzles out in ten years. That it's no bigger than the banks and classic institutions, and that it's no larger than 2x its present market cap on June 28th, 2021. Including any new entrants.
I'd also and separately be willing to bet you $1000 that there's a cryptographic attack (quantum or not) that scares everyone away from crypto. (And I think the US and China already know this.) I'll define "everyone" as a loss of institutional support by at least ten major stakeholders worth over 1B USD. (I think it would be much broader, but I want to define a measurable metric.)
Ten years - want to make that bet?
So I will take a bet on crypto in 10 years that actually IS in accordance to my actual views. There will still be more than one cryptocurrency in widespread use (endorsed by nation-states or in wider usage) in the world by 2031. I'll call that bet up to $10,000 2021 USD, inflation-adjusted in the year 2031. I've added a way to reach me on my about profile. Reach out and I'll formalize a contract over for you to have notarized and return to me. A cousin of mine is a lawyer so it'll be air tight.
Your second bet is even more vague and useless to haggle over, "scares everyone away", what does that mean, exactly. Too much wiggle room, I don't see a way to nail you down offhand, so I'm not interested in that one.
I wasn't trying to "argue" with the Dropbox reference, I said it simply reminded me of that moment.. as I believe you couldn't be more blatantly and obviously wrong.
Looking forward to taking your money as I have a child on the way that will need it by that point. I'll accept your payment in the cryptocurrency that you'll be using in 2031 as well.
There's no need to do this with an HN poster. Crypto is a financial market. There's no end to puts you can buy if that's what you believe. Just buy some puts, and bet on the value of $COIN going down.
I mean, I'm a bear on ~everything crypto, but I no longer think it will go away just because it is stupid, useless or wasteful. I don't think it will reshape or replace anything, but I'd almost be shocked if it "fizzled out" in the next ten years.
People are still paying good money for homeopathic remedies; you think they'll wise up about crypto any faster?
The world will never be ready for the scenario that you're predicting in <=10 years. If you truly believe that timeline enough to bet money on it, you damn well should be burying gold, stocking up on canned goods, digging a well, and amassing a stockpile of firearms today. No sarcasm.
Governments will regulate it. They'll protect banks and financial institutions and jail anyone breaking into them.
They won't give a shit about crypto.
Fiat is run by democracies with elections, they're not pay-to-play oligopolies like crypto.
Monetary and fiscal policies can be used to control the health of the economy. It's part of a wide system that also offers education, medical care, transportation, and many other utilities for actual people. Crypto offers what, exactly?
NFTs are worthless garbage nobody can legislate. Digital barcodes. Nation states have robust IP laws to protect and transfer ownership.
Crypto wastes energy. It also wastes human brains that could be solving more pertinent problems.
Gambling on crypto is as dangerous as it gets, and it's best we keep those without money to lose and financial knowledge away from these things. This isn't just a MLM, it's people's lives.
Quantum computing will render all of the blockchain useless anyway.
Crypto is a religion like meme to some and get rich quick scheme for many more.