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Re:Avoiding Complexity with Systemd by tpush on Sunday June 27, 2021 @06:50AM (#27650447)
> [...] but the semantics of this seemingly "declarative" configuration was never properly specified.

What's missing from docs like [0] that makes you say that?

[0] https://www.freedesktop.org/software/systemd/man/systemd.uni...

Re:Avoiding Complexity with Systemd by eesmith on Sunday June 27, 2021 @11:21AM (#27652265)
I know so very little of systemd as it doesn't touch anything I do.

I can pattern match that https://blog.darknedgy.net/technology/2015/10/11/0/ - "Structural and semantic deficiencies in the systemd architecture for real-world service management, a technical treatise" from six years ago (Discussion at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10370348 ) might be relevant.

Are those points reasonable? Dunno. If so, have they been addressed? No clue.

Re:Avoiding Complexity with Systemd by zozbot234 on Sunday June 27, 2021 @12:33PM (#27652963)
https://blog.darknedgy.net/technology/2020/05/02/0/ is a 2020 post from the same blog, pointing out that these issues basically remain unaddressed. But again, this is not just some "anti-systemd" talking point; the pro-systemd side also acknowledges this! They just think sysv-init was even worse.
Re:Avoiding Complexity with Systemd by zxzax on Sunday June 27, 2021 @01:53PM (#27653626)
I honestly would like to see a better service manager than systemd, but just my opinion from following development of these things: a huge reason why it can't happen comes from underlying deficiencies in the kernel, and with Unix. The real core issues can't be addressed without a large amount of changes there, which are outside the control of a service manager.
Re:Avoiding Complexity with Systemd by nine_k on Sunday June 27, 2021 @06:31PM (#27656078)
I'd love to see a later development of a proper system manager that learns from systemd's faults and allows for compatible interfaces for transition.

Much like Pipewire exposes PulseAudio interfaces but is implemented differently.

Re:Avoiding Complexity with Systemd by zxzax on Monday June 28, 2021 @02:02AM (#27658585)
To me it's the other way around -- pipewire is the sound server equivalent of systemd. For better or for worse.
Re:Avoiding Complexity with Systemd by nine_k on Monday June 28, 2021 @02:07AM (#27658616)
What would you prefer then? Jack?
Re:Avoiding Complexity with Systemd by zxzax on Monday June 28, 2021 @11:22AM (#27663080)
I just use systemd and pipewire, it's not a problem for me personally. They're the worst options... except for all the others :)